Long cut waterproof jackets

That's in interesting observation about the teeth. I currently have a Fairydown-branded one, which is really a knock-off from the recent Macpac era when they were branding a few things as Fairydown, that I bought about 5 years ago. I don't know how closely it relates to current Macpac models. Within a couple of months of buying it, the main zip lost a couple of teeth. It'd probably just broken randomly as happens with 80% of modern outdoor gear when it's used in places other than wide open spaces with no wind, water or movement, but it still seemed like a serious safety issue to me for the reasons you mention. (I didn't want to be fighting against that zip with numb fingers in a blizzard.) I took it back to the Macpac shop in Wellington and had to argue with them about a warranty fix. Even with the store manager present they still refused to agree to that until they'd actually sent it back to wherever it goes. If it hadn't been cleared from there they were going to try and charge me about $80 for a new zip. I was sure it would be cleared because of things like NZ Consumer Law, but having to argue and not being given certainty was just annoying. To be fair I haven't encountered similar problems at Macpac shops since, but in future I think I'd still, go down the avenue of trying to find a zip that seems less likely to break, or buying from a retailer who I'm certain will always have someone on staff who knows the law.

It always amuses me that people expect to stay completely dry in a raincoat. When I carry a pack up a hill not wearing a raincoat I get wet with sweat, paticularily on my back, strangely enough this also happens when I wear a coat. I also use walking sticks so in the rain there is a bit of water that comes back down my arms (bit of dampness to the elbows). I judge a coat to be not working well when I get wet on the outside of my upper arms which I assume can only come from leaking shoulders and/or when I am not just damp under the coat but soaking wet.

@izogi - not good that you had to argue your case about the zip. With normal use the zip failed after two months... that is poor indeed! I think all repairs go to a factory near Ferrymead. That's where my old Torre pack was repaired and collected from. Nice lot in there, very accommodating. Actually it was the zip issue that put me off buying the Resolution. It seemed clunky and definitely not fit for years of use. I hope I'm wrong. The ESS has a similar chunky zip... it worked OK however. Hmm. In a shop recently (can't remember which one), I saw a bunch of rain jackets with a thick silvery material sewn/glued onto the yoke and shoulder. Tough reinforcing for pack straps. Someone was thinking there. Just had my Goretex Paclite re-coated with DWR after 1.5 years. It had worn off on the shoulders, back and waist area which resulted in being soaked in sweat coming down a hill in a westerly storm. Pretty sure there was more water inside than out. Was still warm as toast in my wet merino. The other thing about ESS was they know their gear and fabric technology. I had a long talk to a guy at the factory about the Hydrophobia and came away thinking that a lot of research and testing had gone into this product. The stats on the fabric are available online which is always a good thing. Macpac had to find the folder that described Pertex Shield AP's properties, they also had no answer as to why this information is not on the internet…. anywhere. I'm expected to believe what is written in a folder at their store… for all I know it could have been made up. Little things that just don't help to inspire confidence. Maybe not everyone cares what the hydrostatic head or air permeability of a fabric is. They buy on blind faith and that's fine for them. But when you're paying $480 upwards, knowing a bit about the product helps to ensure you end up with something fit for the purpose it was made for. All this means nothing until they are used in the real world in classic NZ conditions. The proof as they say, is in the pudding.

I have been using an Oringi coat for about 6 years. I bought it because I was sick of getting a wet bum particularly above the bushline in wet tussock. I agree that the hood is little floppy but I usually wear a gortex cap in the wet so it is not too much of an issue. I think breathability is greatly overrated and in the absence of pit zips I usually open the zip and keep the storm flap closed which allows quite a bit of ventilation

Here is my thought experiment for real world tramping: You're crossing a big SI valley with stiff breeze and steady rain. It's pretty miserable and then on about the fourth crossing of a braid you slip and sit down in cold water up to your chest. Now you are soaked. And the nearest hut isn't close. Now what happens? In my experience it's this kind of real world situation where most clothing systems just don't work well. And certainly not well enough to live up to either the marketing hype or price. The key to understanding the kind of cool, high-humidity conditions that are the big challenge in NZ is that YOU WILL NOT BE DRY. Whether it is from the sweat you generate or from rain or just wrestling wet vegetation - the system must work well enough when it is wet. This is why so many hunters and NZFS guys used to depend on the felted woollen Swandri style tops. Sure they weighed a ton when wet, and took a week to dry out - but you were never going to become dangerously chilled as long as you kept moving. There is no magic material that solves this problem. The nearest I have gotten to it is a pair of Cioch Glamaigs (made from Paramo/Nikwax material) we purchased online about ten years ago. And yes I put them through the real life test I mentioned above. The result was that I was pretty cold for about 10 minutes as the bulk water drained out, and then slowly over the next hour or so that changed from dangerous cold to damp and a bit miserable. By the time we made camp that night I was neither exactly dry and nor toasty - but I was safe and happy enough. The system worked even when fully wetted out.

@mantis Very interested to read your experience with the Oringi jackets. To my mind they represent the other viable rain jacket strategy - go down the path of something that just bounces off as much water from the outside and then depend on the qualities of the inner layers to deal with the inevitable dampness on the inside. The Oringi jackets fill this niche perfectly - and I'll definitely buy one someday. In my opinion the mass marketed Goretex, Event and similar 'breathables' materials just don't work well enough in the kind of NZ conditions when you need to depend on them most. If you look at the technical descriptions for these materials, they absolutely depend on the humidity gradient between the inside and the outside in order to drive vapour in that direction. Absent that gradient (ie when the outside humidity is almost the same as that on the inside) the so called breathability of these materials is almost zero. They make perfectly fine ski jackets and work best in low-temperature, low-humidity conditions while they are still new, clean and the DWR still beads up nicely. Real world tramping tramping ticks none of these boxes. The temperature is usually around zero degrees with very high humidity. Everything gets dirty, oily and abraded and the DWR stops working. It's completely the wrong technical scenario for the 'breathable membranes' as we currently know them.

Nevertheless I find the marketing spiel marginally more plausible than "waterproof boots" which clearly have a giant hole in the top. :)

All my early tramping was done in an oilskin… was normal to be damp underneath. Even then I wore wool as a first layer (scratchy as anything). The oilskin had a huge yoke on it with vents underneath. Worked really well. And it was a decent length. Just the weight… (!) @PhilipW - the advances made in fabric technology continues to lag behind the demands of real world situations, especially NZ conditions. All the research I've done so far on the modern jacket has not revealed any stand-out performing models/brands. Reviews by people wearing them in this country counts for a lot as do jackets designed and/or made in NZ. DWR… the whole concept of breathability is depending on this stuff being applied on the outside. When it wears off (within a season), you might as well be wearing a kleensack for all the breathing it will do. When buying a tent I look at the fly and floor ratings as I'm sure most do. Same for a jacket… which costs almost the same as a tent! Would be great to see a Oringi Milford Bush jacket but seems there are no retailers. Appreciate all the discussion :-)

When actively sweating, no breathable fabric works well enough to keep you dry.. If you are not being active, and it is cool enough then the breathable fabric might be up to the task. When tramping in the rain I fully intend to get wet. So I dress to stay comfortable when wet. The rain jacket is more just to trap the heat in and to cut the wind.

waterproof moisture permeable membranes will only let moisture out when the outside humidity is lower than the inside humidity. when the outside fabric is wet, moisture cant get out effectively.. the air permeable waterproof membranes are among the most effective at letting you dry out when the conditions do permit moisture to move through the membrane, but nothing beats physical ventilation like opening a jacket up.. one of the real benefits when its wet and cold is the waterproof membrane provides a barrier for the cold air and water on the outside to reduce its ability to get into your clothing and onto your skin.