Boots - Gore Tex or not ?

Hi ellaleah, Of course your opinion is valid and I agree with your original point "that you should buy the boot that meets your requirements and most importantly fits your own feet" I have multiple pairs of boots and try and match the boots used to the conditions expected to be encountered. My point is that Gore Tex boots don't fit my requirements where there is lots of fording of water courses or where you are in them using the water course for access. Fording deepish watercourses and travelling up/down them is common in the type of tramping/work I do. Stopping to drain the water from your boots each time they filled up would be very time consuming for me as some days it is repeatedly happening & therefore that is just not practical.

Ellaleah - speaking for myself, I suspect I'm coming at this from a different direction to yourself, namely: 'how come I can't get a $700 pair of boots to last more than 6 months on the hill'. I work in my boots on the hill workdays and tramp in them weekends, but even so it still seems ridiculous that they start to fall apart within 3 months. Glennj's figure have thankfully confirmed to me that I (and the pople I work with) are not alone in this. I noticed about 6 years ago when goretex replaced traditional linings that my boot life crashed from nearly a year to the above times. My belief is that this is because a) they never dry out from day-to-day, and b) from the pumping action of water that gets stuck between the linings forces holes to open. I have another pair goretex La Sportiva boots that are slightly small for me and not copmfortable: so only get used on day-walks where they can do limited damage to my feet. I've been trying to walk them into the ground, so that I can throw them away without guilt, for several years now, but they just won't die. The difference? They get to dry out between uses. So: the requirements of a tramper vs a bushworker are, I think, slightly different. a) trampers boots do not spent weeks on end wet, so have different strains on them; and b) as a tramper you can go for maximum comfort even at the expense of durability, knowing the expense of boots will only come round every few years. But when you're having to start saving for that next pair of boots as soon as you buy the last one, life expectancy becomes much more important. So yes: your experiences and opinions are very valid: and probably more relevant than mine for the general tramping community. But for me boots are one of the largest expenses in my annual budget (I spend more on boots than I spend on maintenance of my vehicle in a typical year) and the chance to discuss the different options with people who face the same problems, such as glennj, is one I greatly appreciate.

"they just won't die. The difference? They get to dry out between uses." This sounds very consistent with a conversation I had with a normal shoe retailer in Newtown (Wellington) who used to be a shoe maker, until they shut down the factory. He reckoned even normal day-to-day shoes would last much much longer if you had two pairs and wore them alternately, so as to let each pair properly air out between times. Unfortunately it's not the most practical advice if you're on multi-day excursions and don't want to be lugging a second pair of heavy boots everywhere you go. It's even less practical if you try to figure out how to air them out whilst carrying them. It might be that even having duplicate equivalent pairs of boots and wearing them as alternately as possible between trips could have an effect, though. Out of interest, have you ever tried taking boots back with a receipt after 3 months and claiming they weren't suited for purpose as advertised? Not that it'd necessarily work, since I suspect a retailer would at best refund you and refuse to sell you another pair after a couple of times without a clear understanding of their uselessness.

is it a case of needing teh old newspaper in the boots? old boots you just had one layer of leather, now you have a liner layer that will hold a lot of moisture even without fore tex providing a barrier, you need heat to drive the moisture out of the boot through the membrane a lot of modern boots use nubuck leather which is soft to start with and is prone to getting even softer if it isnt maintained correctly.. it is hard to get a decent life out of those boots, lightweight boots i've found the tread tends to wear out or come part before the uppers fail. fabric boots dry a lot faster and is less maintenance but fabric isnt for everyone since it doesnt stand up to abrasion with rock anywhere near as well as leather.. i wear gore tex shoes to work, I didnt actually buy them for teh gore tex, they dont get wet at work any more than anyone elses shoes get wet unless they get wet on the short walkto and from the office, but I do notice in teh cold they can be clammy they dont shift all the moisture out if i have damp socks from something like standing in water in the bathroom at home the socks dont dry out fast... thing is membranes in footwear is to a certain extent a marketing gimmick, and has virtually taken over in being cincluded in most tramping footwear where it's not always needed. most non membrane fotowear is usually summer foot wear which has a mesh outer, which you don't want if you're in the mud.... they are designed for dry tracks and preferably ones not too dusty... i'm contemplating getting some summer boots to avoid using my gore tex boots any more than i have to... mind you i spent a fortune on my gore tex ones and don't really want them sitting around any more than i have to have them sitting around... if you're going on something like great walks type tracks, your boots are not going to get mud in them... although if you're going in cold weather wearing non membrane boots with mesh outers you're in for cold feet and you dont really want those boots in snow.... theres always custom made boots if you have the money to spare.... unless you know exactly what size you need from a boot then you're looking at trying them on in nz if not buying them here at our extorionate prices. other wise get them overseas at massive discount if you are sure of your fitting for a model.. my b rother in law has just taken a bath financially on poor boot choices, ended up selling them as used and go to buy something else because he finds out the hard way the limitations of the boots he has bought...

Thomas Brunner,an early explorer/surveyor,walked from Nelson to Paringa,return,over 18 months.He prized two things;the ability to find & cook fern roots,and to walk in bare feet.Let`s throw away our Sportivas & toughen up!

you first mate ha ha ha ha

We worked a place off the pig-root in Otago several years ago. Paton was the cocky's name. First time we met him was mustering out in the middle of the tussock-and-speargrass tops between Wild Dog Creek and the Shag River - barefoot. We met him several times over the years out on his high country farm, each time barefoot. I dropped into sign them up for possuming one year, and met his missus. I commented on how tough his feet must be to work barefoot up there in all seasons. She said she used to make sure he left home with his boots on, but on days when she would come up in the day with lunch for the workers she'd find the boots sitting by the first gate off the road. Last time I saw him he was about to head off on a trip onto the Olivine Ice Plateau - with boots, presumably. Next year I called in to sign them up, keen to hear about the trip. But there was only his wife and son. He'd been diagnosed with cancer a few weeks after he returned from the Olivine, and died within the year. He remains, however, someone who many of us will never forget.

my sister was doing teh queen charlotte walk, there was an american doing it as well. she would see him during her walk from day to day. he was in jandals. on the last day he had stubbed his toe badly, blood all over the place.... on rocky terrain it's a hard job keeping feet injury free, i was wandering around at routeburn falls in bare feet, i stubbed my toe and ripped my toe nail clean off and had to stop the blood flow... then theres the issue of a sharp rock or stone going up into your arch , the force can be enough to tear the tendon underneath. I"ll leave bare feet to tarzan, I so wanted to be like him when i was young, but it never worked out for numerous reasons...

My farm boots which I wear most days typically last a year, my current ones should last 18 months. While they do not get water in them from deep crossings, they do get wet from sweat and absorption from wet grass. They normally fail from cracking, I do wonder how much longer they last if I bother to treat the leather with same type of wax. All up they retail for around $170. Much cheaper then dedicated tramping boots and better made.

The farm boots sound like good value. I had a pair of Sportivas so I know about failing to wear them in, instead it happened the other way round! That's what got me into tramping in sandals for 11 years!