Milford or Routeburn winter conditions?

if you talk to doc let tehm know what your experience is, sometimes they will put people off if conditions are less than ideal. when in reality you could cope with them, they wouldnt recommend kepler in snow to everyone, esp if they think you look or sound like you dont. if you turn up to a visitor centre wearing good quality worn tramping gear they might take you seriously. if you look like you just grabbed any old clothing or dressed yourself from head to toe at the first outdoor shop you came across esp one like kathmandu, then they might give you the advice they give to novices... dont go if theres much snow around..

should read "if you look or sound like you don't have experience"

Also note that DoC people often know places really well and give great advice, but sometimes you'll encounter someone who's unnecessarily pessimistic. If you think this is happening, it's still your own judgement and responsibility that matters and you don't legally have to listen to DoC advice. (Exception is if the area's been officially closed to public access, which means they can tell you to stay out. This is unusual unless there's something very uniquely dangerous going on.)

yeah , use your judgement as to whether you might be being patronised to or whether the advise is genuine... but i'd usually heed strong warnings, their advise should be something like "only for experienced people" aka no novices who dont know how to equip or cope with difficult weather/snow. or they may be advising no one goes, in which case i'd definitely heed the advice that no one goes....

hi guy's I,m also thinking of doing the Routeburn the first few days of October. Contacted doc a few weeks back for advice on huts and avalanche risk at that time of year. Huts have no gas and possibly no water depending on the amount of water left in the tank and whether it has frozen or not.Avalanches are on a day to day basis. Water and gas doesn't concern us too much but the avalanche risk obviously does since we don't have any alpine tramping experience.During our research we seen on u-tube helicopters flying walkers around the avalanche prone area's but doc couldn't or wouldn't tell me if they fly at that time of year, can anyone advise me on that or at least the name of the chopper company and I can contact them directly. I would also like some feedback on our back up plan if we can't do the entire Routeburn. Starting at the divide I thought we would go as far as Lake Mackenzie via Key Summit and spend the first night there. Day 2 if we cant carry on with the Routeburn, turn around and head for the upper Caples hut but I see on another thread that by then that hut may be gone and moved to the Mid Caples, does that make it to far to do in a day? I know it depends on the groups fitness but to give you some idea my wife and I done 20k's in just less that 5 hours on a really hilly and muddy track on the weekend just gone at lake Manchester near Brisbane and we would be the slow ones in the group.If it's possible spend the night there and day 3 would be on to the Greenstone Wharf and bus back to Queenstown, hot shower and 6 Carona's but possibly not in that order. Any thoughts would be appreciated and we will all have good appropriate clothing and equipment but will have to hire beacons so if you can tell me where we can hire these in Queenstown that would be much appreciated as well. Thanks Deadrock (billy)

Hey Mate, I just got back from doing the Routeburn. Started tramping on the 22nd of June. the week before it was looking like a total no go zone with snow storms and 140km winds but when I got to Te Anau I talked to the DOC and I got lucky that the weather was looking clear and avalanche danger was only moderate. I started at the Devide and there was snow in the car park. it got deeper as I went up as you would expect. At the highest point the snow was Knee deep for a few hours. Crampons or snow shoes were a must. Coming down to the falls hut as there was ice covering the path. I had my crampons on for most of this day and again on my way back across. Had a few sketchy moments at the falls on day one with chunks of ice falling down and landing fairly close to me. Then again a little further along in a rock fall area. Herd a few rocks creaking but nothing fell while I passed :) It will all come down to the weather at the time and just before you head off. Plan for a plan B and C but hopefully plan A will happen :) Becon rental and all supply's can be found in Te Anau It's a super nice little town and cheaper than Queeenstown. Also the Kiwi holiday park (caravan park) have good facility's and are great on customer service.

Back in 2007 I had planned on doing the Routeburn at Labour Weekend (usually around about the 25th October). Starting at Routeburn Shelter I was going to walk to Lake Howden over 2 days and then come down the Caples and finish at the Caples/Greenstone carpark. I was informed by the shuttle driver upon arriving in Queenstown, the day before the walk, that DOC still officially had the track shut between Routeburn Falls and Lake Mackenzie, so I had to alter my plans. As I had booked and payed for 2 nights in the Great Walks huts (Labour Weekend is the official opening of Great Walks season) I decided to get dropped off at the Caples/Greenstone car park and walked the whole way up the Caples to Howden hut on day 1 which took 10 hours. Day 2 I walked to Lake Mackenzie and stayed the night there (4 hours walk). Day 3 I backtracked to Howden hut and then went the whole way down the Greenstone to Greenstone hut (Mackenzie to Greenstone took about 10 hours). Walked out day 4. There was certainly snow on the track up to Lake Mackenzie but nothing too dramatic. Beyond Lake Mackenzie was a no-go though, without alpine gear. The zigzags up out of the Mackenzie basin disappeared very quickly under deep snow. The only place I felt unsafe on the walk up was at Earland Falls. You wouldn't know there was an avalanche coming there until it was coming over the cliff above you! I do highly recommend visiting Lake Mackenzie in winter (its simply gorgeous, especially if it snows on you while you're up there like it did with me) but I doubt you would get past it, so your plan on going down the Caples is definitely something you should plan for. I'm not sure when Upper Caples hut is going but I would estimate Mackenzie to Mid Caples would be about 10 hours walking. If you have to choose between the Caples or the Greenstone then pick the Caples, its a much more interesting valley to walk in then the Greenstone. Beacons can be hired in Queenstown from the DOC office. Flick them an email and they'll put one aside from you. At that time of the year though you'll be able to just walk in and grab one, not many people tramp in October! The DOC office annoyingly is located above a shop so it keeps shop hours. If you arrive into Queenstown outside of 9-5ish you wont be able to pickup or return the beacon, there is no after hours pickup/dropoff.

Thanks yarmoss & linz01 great advice. Like the idea of starting at greenstone carpark and going up the caples that way and then onto Lake Mackenzie. Unfortunately only got 3 days so going back down greenstone probably won't happen but if we can get through safely we would finish the Routeburn and put our campervan hire off for a day. Not going to take any chances though since we have no alpine experience at all , kind of difficult to get in Brisbane. Dehydration and snakes are about the only thing we have to be careful of. Is doc open on Sunday's? We arrive Saturday, prep on Sunday and start tramping first thing Monday. There are 6 of us so perhaps we should get some beacon's put aside for us. After plan A,B or C wife and I head up to Arthurs Pass then up north, Picton Nelson area so any good advice on must do day or perhaps 2 day tramps in those areas would also be appreciated. Thanks again

The Queenstown DOC was only open 9-4 monday to friday Te Anau was 9-4 7 days. It may change closer to the date . send them an e mail just before the be sure. good luck and I hope the Mountain lets you pass :)

another big snow dump coming through http://www.metservice.com/mountain/fiordland-national-park