SAR delayed "because they have a beacon"?!

Hi Matt. I think you should simply state on your intentions form how absolutely certain beyond a doubt you are that you'll need a rescue if you're not out by your stated panic date, irrespective of the circumstances, and I think any rescue coordinator would take that into consideration as long as they're convinced you know what you're on about. "Do you have a source for the statement that in the majority of cases, the tramper is either dead or stable?" I don't have it in front of me, but one of the career rescue helicopter medics was interviewed in an FMC bulletin an issue or three ago. (Can anyone quote the number?) He said that it used to be that rescuers would find people in either a dead or stabilised condition, which makes perfect sense because it typically takes so much time to locate people that it's necessary to stabilise yourself if you're relying on that kind of search and rescue, or you'll die. These days however, with beacons and cellphones indicating immediate emergencies and precise locations, helicopters often fly in when people are in the process of dying. The urgency with an EPIRB activation is greater and required skills are more specialised and immediate. The thing is, though, that there needs to be clear information about an emergency and a position for this kind of immediate response to be useful. If there's no clear evidence, and if you're dying without any form of instant communication handy to give an exact position, it's unlikely you'll ever be located within the golden hour anyway. You're probably either stabilised enough to stay that way for longer, or you're dead a long time before your panic date even triggered concern. The most likely scenario for most parties --- especially if they're known to have an EPIRB and haven't yet triggered it (but not exclusively) --- is that they've been held up longer than anticipated, and will be out fairly soon after even if tired and hungry. In any case it gives the rescue coordinators time to sit down and consider options and plans before calling out a massive rescue response. In the case you cited from SoftRock, a further consideration was probably that a group of 3 could either look after each other effectively to help with stabilisation, or would be likely to send someone out for help if they were really having EPIRB problems.

The source for my remark that casualties are either dead ir stable is from a discussion at a SAR conference. Someone made this observation because often search training exercises involve a module on first aid and stretcher carrying and someone suggested this is an unlikely senario. I have generally observed since that remark and I have seen that to be true. The other point about embaressment. I am concerned about my reputation. I have once been helicopter rescued and was relieved when the newspaper report, which carried my name and was reported nationwide, said we were well equipped. I have also walked out of the North Branch of the Routeburn on a sprained ankle because I knew that if a rescue were reported in the news it would say I sprained my ankle on the Routeburn Track. You might say I am a daft tramper or no brain, no pain, and you are probably right. The possibility of an accident in the mountains has always involved the possibility of a long wait for rescue. Remember there is an element of risk for helicopter crews flying in the mountains and they won't come looking for you if the weather is unsuitable. With Mountain Radios, because of propogation conditions, they work best in the evening or the early morning. Often you cannot get a message out during the day, so they are not the complete solution. When filling out an intentions report, I only specify what I plan to do on each day of the trip, the day I am coming out (no time) and specify any difficulties that I might encounter and what alternative I might take to overcome them. I give significant equipment carried, eg. Mountain Radio, PLB, cell phone and number etc etc. I don't tell anyone what they should do if I don't arrive. How can I predict a "chopper time"? That is entirely up to those assessing the situation. If you think you can specify the time to start as search, I suggest you make an appointment beforehand with the Senior Sargent incharge of SAR in the area you are going tramping and see how you get on.

I meant to say in that paragraph about waiting for help, that is why one of the most important components of my first aid kit is lots of good strong codine based pain killers.

I took that last sentiment to heart some time ago. I now carry suitable pain relief for a sustained wait.

Concrete pills Paul? Even through you have have a beacon you should STAY WITHIN YOUR EXPERIENCE LEVELS AND NOT TAKE ANY UNNECESSARY RISKS. You should also still take weather, river crossings, open tops travel-well marked or not etc etc when planning a trip and plan accordingly so yoou you don't end up s*&^ creek without a paddle. Beacons are only for life treatning situations which if you planned according and minimised the risks would be a slim chance. From the case on Pg 1, I'm sure the party would have spare supplies, I always take at least a days extra-3 meals and could ration that if needed. It does not say the area they are in so they could easily get out, no doubt there intentions left would help Police/SAR make a decision. They were well equiped I normally leave a list of gear I'm carrying-tent G.P.S, compass etc etc which if they were 'well equipted may of had this gear. There was also three of them the chance of all of them getting injured is highly unlikely. Man I could be here all day writing. Standard practice before beacons was one person walk out to get help so if your beacon is broken I'm sure one person could have walked out tp raise the alarm. This 'chopper time' is stupid, at the end of the day you are there to tramp and to enjoy yourself in what nature has to offer. If you are worried about not getting rescued at this time then how did you get yourself in a situation to get rescued in the first place. If you are ever overdue I'm sure you can either walk out or wait it out if have the right gear,plus extra food will allow you to do this. The fact that they have not activated there beacons means they were not in a life threatning situation. Once they got into one they activated there beacon and got 'extracted'. I'm sure Police/SAR did the right thing and I'll be taking a beacon with me for those unforeseen circumstances plus leaving intentions with DOC and family, all the gear I need, extra food and plan accordily to the weather, terrain, river crossings etc etc

I don't see a chopper time/panic date as stupid, although calling it a 'chopper time' is presumptuous, which is why I prefer to call it a panic date. From a perspective of friends and family, it's a way to differentiate between the time you anticipate being home for dinner in an ideal world, and the time you'd like them to start being concerned and raising an alarm with others. It shouldn't have anything decisive to do with a rescue launch of any sort. That's for a rescue coordinator to consider and make a decision on, but a coordinator might still look at a person's plan and judge the person who wrote it, and let that contribute to a decision about how immediately further action is required.

Hi again, some very valid points and good food for thought, but also some views expressed here that are not thought through very well at all. Please apologise that I don't feel like trying to clarify everything I said before again, I simply don't have the time. Regardless of how you feel about all this and how some might warp their interpretation of what I am saying though, the matter of the fact remains: For alarms raised by a backup contact because you are overdue, SAR decisions are likely to be more beneficial for you if you understate your equipment status, and especially keep quiet about carrying a beacon. So far, no one was able to convince me otherwise. That's all I need to know to know what I will do; and that goes especially where I am responsible for a group. "More beneficial for you" of course means from your very personal egoistic point of view - which, don't kid yourself, is the view absolutely everyone here will adopt when the $#*+ really hits the fan out there, no matter what they type now from the comfort of their living room. Be safe! Cheers, Matt

Hi Matt. I don't really agree, but I guess you knew that. Obviously the point of telling the truth on intentions forms is so that SAR officials can make as informed-a-decision as possible, and an appropriate decision to match. At some point it's necessary to simply trust that they can do their job, which might involve deciding that an immediate search is unlikely to be in anyone's best interests even if a party is overdue. (It's completely possible for me to be overdue and yet for it not to be in my best interests to have a helicopter suddenly flutter in and collect me!) If you set your panic time to be "reasonably late", you just have to trust that SaR officials will recognise this based on everything else you've put in your intentions, and act appropriately. I think you're assuming a rescue was delayed because it was known the party had an EPIRB, when that's simply a red herring. It was really delayed because it was believed for good and clear reasons that the party was unlikely to be in any immediate danger and still having a good chance of simply walking out, or otherwise that an immediate search would be of little benefit even if they were. If it'd been a solo person, or inexperienced people, or people known to be without proper gear, or with pre-existing health issues, or if there was an incoming blizzard, the decision may well have been different.

'Rescuers need rescuing' - check this out, highlights the fact that these guys are on a tight budget: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4494763/National-search-volunteers-need-rescuing

A thought on that last article. A large portion of Sar volunteers are also in tramping hunting or other recreational clubs.How would a voluntary donation at club renewal time be seen by the other members of clubs who for what ever reason cant give up time etc to assist Sar. A $10 donation from 80000 to 100000 members of affected clubs would see a healthy bank balance for Sar and in my case changing club membership from 42 to 52 aint going to break the bank