A common sense approach to gear weight

@jmeyer - I'm intrigued by your 50km days in NZ. Can you give some examples? I'd say with either a daypack, or full non-lightweight tramping pack I'd be at the top end of the distances covered. But donlt think I;ve ever hit that distance on tramping tracks. To justify that statement - from working in the backcountry with countless crews of fit bushworkers for 15 years, I've only met 3 people who walk as fast as my pace, and maybe one who walked faster. Certainly in the UK, 30-mile days are fine: 25 miles a typical planned distance for a day. But in NZ the only times I've ever hit the 50km distance mark in a day are last-days or tramps where long road walks back to town / vehicle get appended to the end of a normal day of tramping. And those generally end long after dark. Ignoring the great walks - which are not tramps - see the name - I can't think of any tramping tracks that would permit more than about 30km in a 10 hour day carrying a daypack (so ultra-light equivalent weight). Sure there are sections of valley-floor-tracks where 4km/h or even rarely 5km/h is possible ... but soon enough you hit a pass or a riverbed or undulating ridgeline whatever and drop back down to 2km/h and your average plummets. Look at the Southern Crossing, for example. 36km of typical NZ tramping on a very well formed trail (by NZ standards). As a mountain race (competitive running: carrying only enough gear to survive until a marshal arrives with help/shelter) typical winning times are around the 5hr30 mark, with the majority of participants coming in the 7-8hr timeframe. The year I ran it the participants included the top NZ mountain runners plus a number of overseas names - 5hr35 was the winning time. And for a 50km day that's the pace you'd have to maintain .

"I've only met 3 people who walk as fast as my pace, and maybe one who walked faster." LOL recalling the afternoon we briefly met on the way up to Blue Range, I can assure everyone here that I'm absolutely not one of those three :-)

I've seen some of your times madpom I'd like to try you lol.

PhilipW...you're not telling me anything I don't already know, I moved to New Zealand in 2002, it's 2019, I'm well aware of the terrain and weather patterns of Aotearoa. I never claimed it was routine for people to knock out 30 miles a day here, that's not common anywhere. However, to hold the position that it's inappropriate because you can't personally do it, and don't know anyone who can, is not overly relevant. I can't honestly say I've seen anything more intimidating or challenging here than what I've seen in the US, other than perhaps river crossings, so let's just agree to disagree. I speak from experience, so do you, the gap between our views will be based on that experience. My problem with your approach is that you are making assumptions based on yourself, not what is actually factual. If you think weather is bad here then you need to spend a week in the White Mountains of New Hampshire in the Northeast US. Everything is relative.

if i go back a few decades, i remember the tramping club i was in had quite a few very fit people who would go all day with light gear, take minimal stops , go fast. couldnt tell you how far they'd get, but it was well above the average. over the years a lot of those people switched from tramping into new sports that evolved, like multisport, adventure racing.. MTBing... the more sedate members of the club stuck with tramping..

Those Vic uni black sheep put in some massive days in the tararua. 15-20km can take me 8-10 hours in there.

@jmeyer "However, to hold the position that it's inappropriate because you can't personally do it, and don't know anyone who can, is not overly relevant." You are right, how far you can walk in a day is beside the point. But if you are sacrificing appropriate gear choices to achieve it ... then eventually SAR will find it relevant. There are good of examples of trampers who took risks for years and got away with it; until one day they didn't.

Yes, people make mistakes, including blowing out their knees from carrying 15-20kg all day, and your mistake is assuming people’s skill, experience and judgement are defined by their pack weight and preferred distances in a day.

Well the last time I tramped with an ultralighter I finished up having to lend him an extra layer to stave off hypothermia on the tops. It wasn't a big deal, but can't say I was impressed. As for blowing out knees, that I would maintain is more a matter of technique, core body strength and the ergonomic character of your pack. I suffered considerable pain for years until I switched to Aarn's Bodypacks, yet most ultralighters would scorn them for being unfashionably heavy.

Sounds like you were hiking with someone who was unprepared, maybe choose better company next time. I’ve hiked thousands of miles with people without incident, many might be considered ‘ultralighters’ in your mind, but who knows cause sounds like you have a very limited view of what ultralight means. I’m sure you’re correct - that pack weight has nothing to do with knee & ankle injuries (that’s a fairly amusing analysis). I’ll pass to you for the last word, thanks for playing...