@pipeking said: "Mt Cook itself has over 80 fatalities and Taranaki looks similar (but I can't find exact stats for either)" Do consistent stats even exist anywhere? I know people like Graeme Kates keep unofficial records for particular areas, but I don't think I've ever seen clear stats for everywhere. On Taranaki, I wasn't even sure if the 80+ figure is specifically climbing the peak, or if it also includes the accidents elsewhere in the park, and there have certainly been others. I guess this also gets into one of the difficulties of accident reporting. Fatalities might be an exception because they usually involve a documented official response, but probably a very small portion of non-fatal accidents get reported.
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. To me at least it seems to confirm that there's not much of a consistently kept record, or at least not one that's public. Does DOC necessarily even know about all the serious and fatal incidents on DOC land, or would some of them filter through completely as Police or the RCCNZ deal with them? Maybe this is something the Mountain Safety Council might be able to work on, with its new goal of 'collecting and analysing of information'. It'd be useful to be able to compare things like what people are doing when they have accidents, where they have them, likely causes, who they are, what conditions are like at the time, where they're from, and so on and so on. I guess there will always be a gap in the whole picture, though, for as long as it's difficult to measure info about the same activities when accidents aren't actually occurring, or even simply when fatal accidents aren't occurring.
the MSC is closing down. Wake up
"the MSC is closing down." http://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/Training/training.asp They're stepping back from most instruction courses as I understand it, not closing down. They see themselves as more of a linchpin between the various types of outdoor organizations & clubs. I suppose it had to happen.
well the FMC dont think they have any role to play especially with clubs, they put out a statement saying they felt they wre now superfluous to offer online information given all the other sources of information available and given they are bowing out of hands on training
I'll believe the MSC's going to remain relevant once I've seen it happen, but one of the three tasks it's planning to work on under its future structure is "Collecting and analysing of information". It's right there in the venn diagram bubble under the "Future" heading. http://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/About-Us/One-MSC.asp The business plan to describe what this actually means and how it'll be done hasn't yet been developed, or at least publicised. What the MSC is no longer doing is training and setting of safety standards.
i see the msc facebook site has been putting out information on outdoor rules. on their facebook website, short numbered lists etc. not a great deal of information just the fundamental basics, no idea if they've stepped things up elsewhere...
:) it was a wind up. I know they're not closing down. I think they may end up pulling the pin entirely though..
That may happen but it would be a shame I still think there has to be an organization that can act as a form of mediator between all the diverse groups that exist and relevant government departments (the Labour Dept. being the most obvious one) When they first started it was “in response to concerns over the increasing number of incidents in the bush and mountains. Representatives from a number of government and recreational organisations formed an incorporated society with the goal of enhancing safety in outdoor adventure activities” Yet the MSC has found it hard to be ‘all things to all men’. When you have groups like the FMC, Deerstalkers Association, the NZAC, plus the various regional tramping and climbing clubs and others, that all want to play in the hills then there has to be some oil between all the cogs. And perhaps more to the point, the MSC is already an established and accepted entity that has proved its value, but it needs to morph into something that ensures that best practice is aspired to and attained in the various member groups, but does not provide instruction itself. The NZAC would be an example of an org that has vast expertise within its membership to provide training yet we still see occasions when it 'appears' to drop the ball, so there still needs to be someone to watch the watchers so to speak. The thread on river crossings is a case in point. Trampers, hunters, climbers and others all need to cross a river at some time and as we have seen best practice has changed & flip-flopped over the years. The best practice of linking arms in 1986 becomes holding pack straps in 2006 and so on. Often there is no one best method for most things but a variety to choose from depending on circumstances. So you teach ALL of them as part of a comprehensive river crossing course. So you need an organization to ensure that everyone is on the same page and can liaise between them methinks.
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