Kathmandu Gortex Jackets

I purchased a Kathmandu Gortex jacket in 2002, it was a proper tramping raincoat with a good long length down to my knees, I've been happy with it, as far as all the hype for breathing etc, I find I sweat after about 20 minutes so its hard to know if it is doing the right thing. I also have a Swazi goretex Wapiti coat and find the same thing happens- I sweat inside, I usually wear merino as a base layer and get wet inside, I think all the hype about goretex, merino etc is just that - all hype,

I studied the DWR technique posted earlier in this thread and the difference was I used a different brand to Nikwax i.e. Grangers. The reason the technique/methodology was identical was because I got the information from Outdoor Magic too! I used a different brand of Sportswash. It wasn't a Nikwax one. Maybe if I shelled out and got Nikwax stuff, it would actually work! And I see you eschewed the washing machine for your second wash (with the Nikwax sportswash). I thought after a complete second wash/rinse cycle in 60C water, that would have cleaned the machine of detergent but maybe it wasn't enough so I'll give the bucket technique a go next time...

Hi Honora, As I understand it there are two main types of DWR, the wax/paraffin based class of which Nikwax is the most commonly available here in NZ, and a fluoropolymer class that I understand is the basis of the Granger product. From what I can work out the fluoropolymer DWRs are at their best when used as part of the manufacturing process. Like you I found the after market spray-on pretty useless. The search for the perfect DWR is a long way from complete.

Thanks for that, Philip. How much does the wax/paraffin based DWR allow breathing? I understand Nikwax have also started manufacturing outdoor gear using a compatible fabric for the Nikwax DWR.

Good question. Calling Nikwax a wax/paraffin was vague and lousy chemistry on my part. More accurately it's based on Ethylene Vinyl Actetate (EVA) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene-vinyl_acetate Oddly enough when you use it you'll notice a slight smell not dissimilar to PVA wood adhesive, which is because they are related chemicals. Nikwax have some more intersting info here: http://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/how_nikwax_works/introduction.php

ventilation, get a jacket with pitzips and or vented pockets to reduce sweat buildup read reviews about how good the dwr is on a jacket before you buy it, i've found the outser fabric surface seems to play a part in how well it sheds water, the smoother and or shinier surfaces do better at shedding water. some membranes are better than others, the newer ones will let air pass through, like event, omni dry, neoshell, Dry Q if its windy they stand to move more perspiration and dry out faster between showers. a test done on the backpackinglight site showed thiner fabrics breathe better to the point where they could outperform theoretically more breathable membranes if they had thinner face fabrics,,, dwr isnt the only issue, in certain weather conditions, garments just won't breath, when it's raining and or the humidity is high, it's hard for the moisture to get through a membrane and evaporate off the surface. cold weather is better for breathability, the outside air carries less moisture and there s a bigger pressure difference between the inside of the garment and the outside that helps moisture transfer... gore spend massive amounts on marketing their products, it's harder to find ad's about event other than the ones individual clothing vendors make but gore is out there plugging itself. they are just ad's at the end of the day made up by marketing men and they've gotten away with "guaranteed to keep you dry" as a slogan, not sure if they still use that now... you know a lot of people use the stuff so it must be good right? well a lot of people might not be able to afford to get something else after spending lots of money on gore tex and they are just putting up with what they bought even though it doesnt match up to the hype.. a lot of companies are bringing out more breathable membranes than gore tex but still use gore tex in their lineup esp for "storm shells" because there are still less reliable membranes to use. neoshell by polartec is now being touted as the most breathable waterproof membrane on the market, but how reliable it proves to be will be another matter, it's not so much a membrane and a collection of micro filaments overlaying each other, the waterproof rating eventually halves, possibly because the filaments break leaving bigger micro pores in the membrane. companies selling neoshell are still selling other membranes as well esp as their "storm shell" garments. there are different technologies stilll coming out. columbia and the north face and combining evaporative technologies with membrane technologies to try and keep breathability high, other companies will probably follow, sin certain weather conditions they may breathe better but they are still likely to have limitations in other conditions. fabrics like paramo mentioned earlier have their limitations, they rely on you being able to keep moving to generate the heat to keep the moisture wicking out of the fabric, if you get injured or stranded in a difficult spot and have to stop and rest theres still the risk of getting water constantly comming through a non waterproof fabric. you'd best have some backup waterproof coating. also don't pay full price for this gear, companies can afford to discount, it's gear that you can be paying a dollar a gram or more for at full price, most of it is made in the third world the labour cost can be around a dollar or two.... what started out as cheap petrochemicals and a few other chemicals now costs a fortune,, look at all the companies now trying to get rid of unsold xmas stock with massive discounts.... I spoke to a guy who kitted himself out at macpac and got 75% off everything..... its a problem when people pay a lot of money they automatically expect a lot. Bob jones said the secret to making a lot of money is to charge a lot then people think they are getting a good service..... he's essentially endorsing ripping people off, just don't expect what you are going to buy to perform anywhere near perfectly then you'll think twice about spending big bickies on it. when i started tramping as a teen , i couldnt afford the latest technology, i bough gear that did the job, it dint function quite as well as the new tech stuff, but it didnt stop me having great experiences in the outdoors.... people who rabbit on about how great their gear is are possibly still trying to convince themselves it ws worth shelling out for the expensive kit, if you're struggling to afford expensive kit, just buy something cheaper and stop believing you're missing out on something better, and get on with enjoying your tramping.... sign up to a mail forwarding company in the states, you can buy stuff dirt cheap online there thats good quality, i use myus.com for mail forwarding and look for gear on gearbuyer.com if i'm sure of the correct sizing then theres no problems... I saves US$200 on a coat I couldnt buy here and got it half price, i got a pack that i couldnt buy here in the future i'll be getting boots from overseas because i know my size in a certain brand and can save hundreds doing so.... if reatailers are complaining you're putting htem out of business then they should setup an online shop where they arent paying rip off rents, too many tramping shops are in high end shopping areas to attract people with money and you're paying for their rent. chances are the people owning those companies are richer than you are. if you see an owner ask them where do they live? what car/s do they drive, what school do they send their kids to>? most peoples living standards are going backwards i'm not interested in maintaining other peoples lifestyles and paying more for something than it's really worth.

Well said, Wayne. Currently wearing a Go-Lite parka (200g), my Dri Ducks under that if it's serious rain (100g)and the possum/merino arm warmers. They make life so much more pleasant. I carry 2 down jackets as well. One light and one heavier. One for a pillow and one as a cape to supplement the 550g sleeping bag (Go-Lite). I also have a thin polarfleece top to wear on days it's raining and can wear a Mountain Hardware Transistion top as my baselayer. I've had that for 7 years now so it's lasting quite well, having been worn for over 300 days I reckon.