Campfires

Interesting duscussion over on fish n hunt after their founding member prosecuted by DOC for a campfire. They are referencing doc website saying fires are not permitted in national parks & may not be permitted in other conservation land - including campfires. How many of us were aware of this rule, if indeed it is a rule? http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1473351169/

I've been watching that too madpom. Will be an interesting outcome.

never been aware of it, numerous club trips i've done where older members never said anything about it and happily lit campfires wherever they camped... they might mean seasonal fire bans on some doc land

From the DOC website: http://www.doc.govt.nz/footer-links/faq/parks-and-recreation/#fires "Fires Where can I light a fire? Fires are not permitted in national parks and are not permitted is some other conservation areas - check with the local DOC office. DOC strongly discourages the use of fires in any public conservation area as it is one of the greatest threats to our natural environment." I'd like to see the legal basis for this. Stating something is so on a website doesn't make it so, is there anything in the National Parks Act that gives DOC the ability to blanket ban any fires anywhere on the conservation estate just by stating so on there website? Edit: A quick look at the National Parks Act Part 7 Offences in Parks doesn't show any mention of having a campfire as a prohibited activity. http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1980/0066/latest/DLM38282.html

Well that's interesting. There doesn't seem to be anything specific in the National Parks Act that prohibits campfires, but if you start looking at bylaws you see things like bylaw 9 for Tongariro National Park. http://www.legislation.co.nz/regulation/public/1981/0069/latest/whole.html#DLM74160 Everything in the bylaw is about describing the parameters of how fires can be lit, but then it points out that it might still be necessary to obtain a permit under sections 23-24 of the Forest and Rural Fires Act. http://www.legislation.co.nz/act/public/1977/0052/latest/whole.html#DLM443337 Those sections seem to talk about open versus restricted seasons. I haven't read it yet, but I guess it's merely DOC saying that it requires permits be obtained which requires them to be obtained, rather than anything fundamental in law to restrict fires.

Izogi will ferret it out. Like waynowski, I've been witness to countless fires on tramping trips, most in river beds. Seems however, you can't light fires in National Parks, according to their bylaws. But there is room for interpretation there... Fiordland National Park bylaw: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1981/0065/latest/whole.html#DLM73709 7. Fires (1) No person shall light within the park any fire (other than a fire fuelled by gas or vaporised petrol, oil, or similar substance) within 200 metres of any formed road unless the fire is in a camping site or in a permanently constructed fireplace. (2) No person shall light a fire within the park in circumstances where it is likely to present a fire hazard. (3) No person shall light a fire within the park (except in a permanently constructed fireplace) within 3 metres of any tree or dry vegetation. (4) Every person who lights a fire within the park shall keep that fire continuously under supervision until it is completely extinguished. (5) No person shall drop, throw, or otherwise place in any combustible material any match, lighted cigarette, or other lighted matter, except for the purpose of lighting a fire as permitted by these bylaws. (6) Nothing in this bylaw shall exempt any person from the requirement to obtain an authority or permit to light a fire in the open air within the park pursuant to sections 23 and 24 of the Forest and Rural Fires Act 1977 or any other requirement of that Act and any regulations made or fire control measures taken under the authority of that Act. Abel Tasman National Park bylaw: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2009/0046/latest/whole.html#DLM1890628 7. Fires (1) A person must not light a fire in the park. (2) However, a person may light a fire in the park if the person lights it— (a) on a portable stove fuelled by gas, oil, vaporised petrol, or a similar substance; or (b) in a fireplace that is at a campsite at the Totaranui Campground and is provided by the department for the public to light fires in; or (c) in a fireplace that is at a campsite listed in Schedule 2 and is provided by the department for the public to light fires in. (3) A person whom this bylaw allows to light a fire in the park must also comply with— (a) the requirement in the Forest and Rural Fires Act 1977 to obtain a permit under section 23 or 24, if the requirement is applicable; and (b) fire control measures as defined in that Act; and (c)any other applicable provision of that Act and its regulations. (4) A person who lights a fire in the park must keep the fire under continuous supervision until it is completely extinguished. (5) This bylaw does not allow a person to light, or try to light, a fire in the park if, in the circumstances, the fire is likely to be a hazard. Not so easy to find the bylaws covering Conservation Areas.

rural fire service, season status http://www.nrfa.org.nz/Pages/default.aspx http://www.nrfa.org.nz/Documents/NationalFireSeasonStatus.jpg

"Not so easy to find the bylaws covering Conservation Areas." Conservation Areas don't have bylaws, but they can have Regulations under section 48 of the Conservation Act. 65(5) of the Conservation Act auto-adopts the State Forest Parks and Forest Recreation Regulations 1979 to be applied to Conservation Parks (including Forest Parks), but I'm not totally sure off-hand if that means apply to all Conservation Areas. (That's basically what makes it illegal, for example, to drive a 4WD up Mount Hector in the Tararuas.) Here they are: http://www.legislation.co.nz/regulation/public/1979/0214/latest/whole.html It basically seems to say that the land which it covers is subject to the Forest and Rural Fires Act 1977, which makes it the Fire Authority's responsibility to issue fire restrictions. My guess (it's a guess) is that this has probably happened according to whichever rules are required for issuing the restrictions, and DOC's just informing people about it.

I've never felt the need to light a fire. Are you guys doing it for cooking or for entertainment?

A fair few people still like to cook on real fires. For one or 2 people its a waste of time but for a large group it can be efficient. For the most part those that do regularly cook on fires they know how to do it safely. The rest are lucky (most of the time) Even so a camp fire does add something to a camp