How many tramping deaths is OK?

This whole discussion, for me, revolves around - is it OK to have some tramping deaths? How many? NZ seems intent on stopping ALL accidental deaths in all fields of life - Nanny Stateism to the nth degree. On a continuum line one extreme would be NO deaths, the others HEAPS. Obviously most people would agree on somewhere in the middle. If we allow people to go tramping, some will die. Information is out there for those who want it about the various dangers of particular routes and situations. If a person decides to ignore it, well, so be it. And some will die. My partner and I agree that, as it stands at present, is about 'right'. When we go tramping we take our chances, our responsibility and our PLB.

Yep. The only way to eliminate all death would be to spend billions ongoingly on infrastructure and/or impose dictatorial restrictions on who can go where. Even then the wx would be the winner now and then. There are so, so many other sports/recs that contain an element of adventure that occasionally bites back hard. Risk is all part of the reward.

I think it depends slightly on what you're comparing the deaths to. If it's money, then NZTA already has a very specific value placed on human life, which is used to decide if it's worth upgrading a road based on the expected number of fatalities it'll prevent. Where tramping safety is concerned, I'm not sure if money's an ultimate answer anyway. All the money in the world won't prevent people dying if it's being used the wrong way, and my impression of accidents is that they're normally a consequence of our traditional messages and ways of communicating them (telling people [not] to do stuff then screaming it more loudly) aren't getting through to certain classes of people.

To me the dividing line was always about risk you positively choose to take on - and risk that is unknowingly imposed on you by other people's actions.

We should always take whatever steps we can to reduce injury and death of anyone but also acknowledge that sometimes death will win. It does hold more cards it can play against us We all die eventually Its just the time and method that changes If we wrap up in cotton wool and never do anything adventurous we will die of obesity and heart failure instead

I come back to a more pro-active hazard identification system on maps to help prevent people inadvertently biting off more than they are comfortable chewing. Eg - since having kids those "one slip and your dead" scrambly bits of track/route are things I try to avoid, especially if soloing. But there's no way of telling they exist by map alone (some really steep stuff can actually be quite safe when you arrive at it).

I think most of us have had a time where we have come across something with a steep, sharp drop on one side when its wet and slippery and had a wee bit of a moment. I think the current system is fine. Safety nets in case of emergency are in place, but leaning on them too heavily does not do anyone any favours. I definitely like the level of self reliance and personal responsibility required, and feel that is as it should be. The information in terms of conditions, tracks etc is by and large out there and available, and anyone embarking on a trip in an area for the first time should familiarise themselves with that. I feel it is when people do not make the effort to become well informed that things go wrong.

I agree. Local knowledge is available and invaluable, and I learned through some hairy incidents to make use of that in pre-planning. But there is no harm in spitballing on how things could hypothetically be made safer (we got to this point via talk about unprepared foreigners, who presumably are less diligent with their homework).

in the latest event in the media in nelson lakes, its believed that the rescuees didnt talk to DOC before heading into the hills. DOC would have warned them about the snow and weather forecast and may have put them off the trip. the lady who drowned on the milford track a year ago was part of a group that didnt contact DOC either.. yo'd have to signpost every track into every park to inform people about the hazards and theres no evidence they would all take notice.

And they avoid the doc office for what? To avoid discussions about hut fees? Gees last time i was in that park, i just about left them a manilla folder of intentions stuff. 05... how things have changed.