Yes I was taught the hands and toes one, and also that you're really grasping at straws by the time you're using it, but that's probably because it's the least bad of some very wanting options. It's good to hear that it's worked at least once throughout history. :)
No one is really speaking to the elephant in this whole conversation:
You shouldnt be traipsing around on a mountain if you dont know what you are doing!
A snow and ice course is really important if you are going to be fooling around on snow. If you ever need to use any of the techniques its probably too late, but then you never know it might save your life.
Also you get to have a couple of fun days up on a mountain with like minded nutters!
Oh, also know when you are pushing your luck and back off:
I tramped up Mt Isobel in Hanmer during the school holidays, there was about 10 cms of snow from the ridge crest up to the trig. I didnt have an ice axe or crampons.
I started walking up the ridgeline towards the top and the snow got harder and icier. I thought, "This is stupid, if i fall over I could slide right down this slope and die" It was only a little bit of snow, but I could see that it was dangerous.
So I turned back:
I can always try again, but not if I am dead.
@geeves: "most first aid courses are taught on the basis that the ambulance is 15 minutes away."
This is true, too. Even if you're ages from anywhere, I guess you can't rule out that a random pilot might fly by in the next few minutes with a helicopter that can be flagged down, possibly even with a defibrilator on board if you're super-lucky. Maybe you can rule that out in bad conditions.
Anyway, this portable defibrilator weighs 1.4 kg according to the end of the Tech Specs page: http://www.defibtech.com/us/lifeline-pro/features
Clearly it won't be cheap, but if the industry recognise the outdoor market and choose to target it, then I think it's a matter of time before it becomes feasible to consider taking a portable defibrilator on an outdoor trip, especially when there are multiple people sharing the weight. There's probably limited reason to take a defibrilator if you're by yourself. :)
Here's an interesting quote from A View from the Summit by Ed Hillary. Take from it what you will :)
After they had conquered Everest they were visiting England and...........“We were based on the very pleasant Pen-y-Gwryd Hotel and I arrived a little late only to discover that everyone else had headed off up Snowdon. I had no boots or mountaineering equipment, but set off up the mountain after them in a pair of sand shoes and casual clothing. I was about halfway up and moving easily when a properly booted middle aged gentleman, sporting and Alpine Club badge, appeared out of the mist. He stopped abruptly, looked aghast at my lack of equipment, and proceeded to give me a thorough dressing down. It was inexperienced and ill equipped people such as myself, he told me, who gave the mountains a bad name. Fuming he disappeared down the hill and out of sight.
After a pleasant climb I returned to the Pen-y-Gwryd and entered the warm and comfortable bar where I was greeted by my expedition companions and introduced to our Alpine Club hosts. Soon I was shaking the rather limp hand of the gentleman who had berated me on the mountainside and I have rarely received such a distraught welcome”
The truth is we have all done stupid things and NOT come unstuck. I winter snow caved on a whim when I was 18 and had no ground mat and froze my nu nus off till. I never made that mistake again.
Just for clarification, in case someone mistakenly thinks I was implying Ed was reckless.
After knocking off Everest any Welsh hill would have been a doddle to but the locals didn’t think so.
(Which ironically is often inversely true of 'experienced' visitor’s to NZ who misjudge our climate etc.)
As for Ngauruhoe, just be careful and prepare the best you can. Self arresting is never a backup plan, but a last resort. As Damon says" Don't Slip"
I think it's a matter of time before it becomes feasible to consider taking a portable defibrilator on an outdoor trip, especially when there are multiple people sharing the weight.
sharing the load works well with tents but Im not sure about a kitset defib. Even so its a good idea with applications in a lot more places than just tramping
I hadn't thought about a kitset defibrilator. Where I come from we'd say something like "I'll take the entire tent and you take the entire defibrilator." :)
There are already lots of these things stationed in urban office blocks right now, with the theory that a trained first-aider with one available might be able to revive someone before an ambulance has arrived. Training's normally needed (at a first-aider sort of level) but they are designed with an intention of being used by non-professionals. They dictate instructions about what to do, and won't emit a shock until they detect that the electrodes are in the right place and that everyone's clear. There was definitely at least one case in the news a few years ago about a first-aider saving someone's life with one. So if you happen to be on a street waiting for an ambulance to revive someone (especially in a city), don't be afraid to send people into all the nearby buildings and find out if anyone has a portable defibrilator and someone who can use it.
With a club trip up here it tends to be one takes club first aid one takes beacon one takes poles and possibly pegs one takes tent. Of course trips with more than one tent still take one first aid and beacon. Of course 1.4kg is on a par with the first aid or the plb or each of the tent parts.
Defibrilator? As in - restarting heart after heart attack? Are heart attacks that common in the backcountry that this would be worth the weight, even in a big party? And wouldn't you need a chopper to arrive pretty-damn-quick, even with a defribrilator after a heart attack. Or am I missing something?
