Not that you shouldn't know how to do it, and do it instinctively, because it could still save your life, but isn't self-arresting something that's essentially a desperate measure which doesn't usually work?
Sort of like how train drivers are taught to lie on the floor with their feet facing forwards before an impending collision. The ideal tactic is to avoid falling as much as possible. :)
Also on the CPR topic, it's a hugely important thing for what @geeves said, but having good communication, like a PLB, is also important in that sort of emergency. Usually CPR is only a delay tactic to keep the oxygen flowing to the brain, but it's unlikely to work on its own, so tends to rely on someone eventually turning up with a defibrilator. It's not all cases though, so it's definitely important to work on CPR for as long as reasonably possible even if there's no good communication.
self arresting does very often work, ive had to use it in an emergency, it worked perfectly, saved me from a high speed collision with a large outcrop of rock...
Yeah ! Right !. If you're desperate not to career down the slopes until you've hit enough things that you finally come to a stop ?!. : )
I go with a tramping club. They'll have a day on one of the lesser ski fields getting people up to speed with crampon technique & ice axe use, including self-arrest. It's not like Army drilling, but enough to give people confidence to participate in Winter hikes within the groups.
Only costs a share of travel petrol, like any other day.
True. The idea is to not have to need it, but sometimes it's worth knowing.
I've heard that the idea behind bending over and hugging your ankles in an impending airplane crash is to ensure there's intact remains for body identification ?.
Agree. CPR is a prolonging exercise.
FYI, my 10-day forecast for Mt Ngauruhoe is mostly in the negatives with a 10-day high temp of 3degC mid-day Mon 19th. Icy !.
Keep in mind Sth Island ski fields are looking for a June 1st opening & make lasting snow before then. North Island high peaks can't be far behind ?.
Cheers all !.
Thanks for the replies. I'm going to give it a whirl. I plan on doing a guided tour in winter to get some ice axe/crampon experience.
There was only snow fairly near the summit last week, so I think it'll be fine getting most of the way up. If it looks dicey, I'll just turn back.
Weather forecast is good, though cold. It was -5 degrees at red crater last weekend when I was there, and I couldn't believe what some people were wearing.
I'd be doing a basic snow skills course as having ice axe and cramponing skills means more possibilities being available. The self arresting practicing session can be a lot of fun! Especially for the upside down, on your back, using your non-dominant arm practice.
CPR out of range of a defibrillator is basically a waste of time. It just gives the people performing it the feeling that they tried to do something. On the streets of my city, if someone has a cardiac arrest, they have a 2% chance of survival, in the hospital wards, 20% and in the Coronary Care Unit, a 70% chance. Knowing this, I hate to think what I'd do if someone arrested in front of me in the hills...probably a token effort. However CPR is good for drowning and children.
I've self arrested in anger a few times. It's only failed twice, once in hard snow and twice when the snow was so soft, the ice axe did nothing. That's when I had to overcome the reflex of not digging the boots in!
One time coming down Rome Ridge from Rolleston, I suddenly stepped onto hard snow and slipped but as I fell to the ground, the pick dug in and stopped me straight away due to the way I was holding it (pick backwards, adze forwards). The runout wasn't good. I then put my crampons on...
@waynowski: "self arresting does very often work"
If it worked for you then that's evidence that it's still definitely worthwhile learning to self-arrest.
I'm trying to remember from when I was last on a course, but I think the claim was that once you've properly gotten started, it's very hard to stop... but there's no alternative option except to try, which is probably why it's taught. When unrehearsed there's often so much happening quickly. You're already out of control and your ice axe is probably flying somewhere that's hard to reach, especially when you're also flying, unless you're lucky, and then you have to try and control things and get the ice axe in the right place without stabbing yourself and then finally try to slow yourself down. YMMV.
On the CPR/defib thing I think you'd be wanting a helicopter as immediately as possible, but in good conditions with a plb or similar and some luck you never know. I'm guessing a satphone might be worth a few extra minutes if it meant not having to go through the activation delay and the rccnz's process of calling contact numbers to establish it's a genuine activation. That's probably 10 minutes lost just in overheads.
I've sometimes wondered how close things might be to having defibrillators which are portable enough that people might reasonably consider carrying them. Even if they only have batteries to hold a charge for a couple of decent shocks, but I don't know enough about the design constraints and where the weight is. Some of the dinky automated ones that you get in office blocks today almost seen of the size that a larger group might be able to split the weight if it were affordable and they thought it might be worth having one on balance.
self arresting with an ice axe can be a bit hit and miss,
how likely you are to be able to stop yourself can depend on how well you are trained to self arrest, how quickly you carry out the self arrest, how you ar arientated when you start falling, the snow or ice conditions, the slope.
