maybe it was a bad example of the top of his head, we all say dumb things from time to time, do you always write people off so easily?
Who? The drunks or the writer? The former yes: lack of consideration for others is something I strongly object to. If they can't drink and still be nice / polite and not ruin everyone elses trip then they shouldn't drink in a public place like a hut.
The latter, didn't write galeforce off at all. Rather feel sorry for him given the drumming he's received in this thread. As I said: if I had stories, I'd share them with him. I certainly read Wilderness myself (and drink Lattes too, though rarely at the same time, and never in the lounge) and would rate it 2nd on my prefferred finds in hut magazine piles.
In fact: for those wishing to cart mnagazines into huts, I'd be most appreciative if you could observe the following preference list:
1. National geographic
2. Wilderness
3. NZ Hunter
4. Rod & Rifle
If you must bring in womens magazines, please ensure thay have nice recipies in them.
i dont know if you're aware but tramping is a pastime that is struggling to maintain the same numbers of participants,
the average age in tramping clubs is declining.
we need to communicate to as many people as possible about our experiences if we want to motivate the future trampers, not pour cold water on someone trying to relay our stories to others. what use are our experiences if we keep them to ourselves and take them too our graves? we have had great experiences in the outdoors but something ignited that spark.. if we didnt have someone else to take us into teh outdoors then somewhre we all probably read about tramping experiences of others that sparked our interest. those stories came from people willing to share with others , otherwise we'd be a lot more ignorant about tramping and may never have become trampers.....
sure its your right to kep your stories to yourselves but there has been a fair bit of opposition to the idea.... none of us were the first trampers, we learned party from those that went before us, its up to you if you want to inform those who follow after you or take what you know to your grave with you and maybe a few close tramping mates and just preach to the converted.... personally if i was new to tramping i wouldnt be happy about the comments i've read here from other trampers and I"d be questioning what trampers are really about.... its a tricky enough pastime as it is when you dont have much information or motivation to get into teh pastime, we've all met grumpy trampers we want to steer clear of who to a certain extent put us off the tramping experience.... and what do those people achieve?, what do you want to achieve?
Yes: getting people out there will be achieved by magazines such as Wilderness and sites such as this one providing the information, inspritation and encouragement to get the people inviolved, and also to let them know what to expect and what is expected of them.
But, that effort is for nought if people's first experience of the backcountry is on a hut full of drunks, or rubbish, or graffitti, or - as you say - grumpy antisocial trampers.
I met the latter, in the form of a Tararua warden, on my first NZ tramp, and with his resolute belief that I shouldn't be there in the hills it was a year before I gave tramping in NZ another try.
I do agree with your main point: this site is the flagship for our passtime online, and we ought to be concerned about how we come accross. I myself have been told here 'You don't know what I'm talking about...', 'You must be stupid...' and 'When you grow up you'll realise ...' in response to posts I've made on this site. Hardly encouraging use of the site, or endearing to the tramping communiy in general. If I've contributed to that negative image, I'm very sorry for that, and will certainly try be more aware of how I word things in future.
However, The problem of antisocial behaviour in huts (much of it alcohol-fuelled) is also, I believe, a serious problem that puts many people off getting involved. It certainly puts me off visiting accessible huts on fine weekends. It needs condemning and addressing, not laughing at.
Maybe I said it in the wrong thread, but that was my point.
my comments are general comments not aimed at any one person, converstions here are often between a few people and are more like personal conversations sometimes in their content but at the end of the day they are in the public domain for all to see. what we write here contributes to the impression people have about new zealand trampers...
I have my grumpy moments but i want people to understand the tramping community in nz on teh whole is a good one with people who will help where they can and pass on information, we wknow when we're tramping at times we've received invaluable information from others that have helped us in our tramps, made our tramps easier and kept us from greater danger, seems to me only fair we impart information to help others when the time arrives. and in as possitive ways as possible. we've all done dumb things in the mountains and realised it, and none of us want to be chastised for that, no one wants to be chastised for being inexperienced if they are new to tramping,
the average age in tramping clubs is declining
Everything else you say is true but isnt the average age advancing (soon to equal retirement age or older) Declining would be a good thing
sorry thats what i meant to say, the age is going up and the numbers are declining. good catch.
Is there any objective evidence that numbers are declining?
Official registered clubs on the whole are getting older, and (I think) fewer people might be joining the...either that or they're mostly attracting older new members, but that doesn't necessarily remain proportional to the total number of people out there, does it?
i know several clubs where the numbers are shrinking and talk to people who know of other clubs that are also shrinking in size,
there are a lot more sports now than there have ever been, people wanting to go into the outdoors can go mountain biking now, multi sport racing adventure racing, rogaining, mountain running, instead of tramping.
students have to spend more time working to pay for their studies than they used to before student fees were hiked massively, more people have to work on weekends, due to weekend shopping, and the general increasing of shift work,
lack of spare money also restricts people from lack of work and higher living expenses.
its not just tramping that is declining in no's for these reasons , numerous other sports have declined in their participants.
casual sporting events have increased massively, so people dont need to be in clubs to do an activity or stick with the same activity they can pick and choose whatever sport they want to do whenever suits them. theres less incentive in casual sports to turn up regularly, there isnt the routine that you have in clubs.
kids spend more time being inactive, infront of the tv or computers. cheaper cars, more cars, more driving, less fit people, fewer people fit enough to tramp....
you want to see the future of nz? go to america or south auckland and look at all the obese people who arent active.
a higher percentage of the population live in the cities now and their access to the hills is worse than it is for rural people...
when i was at college in wellington, most guys my age tramped at least yearly. now hardly any of them do....
is that enough evidence i dont have exact statistics for you just observation, i'm not a statistician just an amateur observer of the tramping community..... is this enough evidence for you because i dont have any more....
I guess what I'm getting at is that it's all introspective observation, with no actual measurement.
The fact that most people you knew at school went tramping at least yearly says more to me about the people you probably hung out with than about school children generally.
Were there really that many *more* people out tramping several decades ago, or is that just a legend that's evolved from exaggerated writings and memories we still have of the times?
Do you include hunters in your count of people tramping in the past, and particularly professional hunters who were paid to shoot? If so, why shouldn't mountain bikers and rogainers be included in today's count?
Are there really fewer people now, or just a higher population with a higher proportion keeping to themselves?
Is a higher rate of obesity a consequence of fewer people tramping, or are the people more likely to be obese at present the same people who'd not have been tramping in the past anyway? (There are many contributing factors to obesity of which less exercise is only one possible thing---the contents of common foods, including preservatives, has changed hugely in the past few decades, and it's a biggie for many people.)
Are shrinking tramping clubs really symptomatic of fewer people reaching the hills generally, or is it just that people are more likely to make their own way in without the help of formal clubs?
You might be totally correct to say that the number of people out tramping is shrinking, but I just don't see any of the examples as being verifiable evidence that it's happening. It could be just as likely that the profile of how people interact with the hills is changing (continuously) and we're noticing that change.
