Commercial Guiding without Permit/Concession

An interesting paradox has arisen in the form of WayWiser. For lack of a better description - WayWiser is a facebook-like site where members PAY to belong and get access to GUIDED runs and hikes. While the actual guided runs are free for members, the membership fee surely means this is a commercial operation. WayWiser have no agreement with DoC, Iwi or land owners. I suspect that technically the legal responsibility would probably fall on the guides should anything go wrong during any of these organised runs. A pseudo loophole exists in that the guides are being remunerated with free gear (sponsored by Bivouac) and discounted WayWiser membership. So while not paid directly they are receiving fringe benefits. Here's the rub, Actual permitted hiking guides PAY a CONSIDERABLE sum annually to do this LEGALLY and within the existing parameters laid out by Doc and the various landowners. Last year an Australian Trail Running company (mile27) sought access to do this on great walks formally and was declined in most instances (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/73949278/Australian-company-seeking-to-operate-running-trips-on-Routeburn-track). Forgive me for calling bullshit where I see it, but - BULLSHIT. This isn't a trail running vs tramping discussion rather a call for fairness for those that are actually following the rules. Commercial operators on great walks are regulated and limited in the interests of protecting our assets and while groups can turn up and use them at any time it's unfair for a commercial operation to go to such lengths to sidestep the rules.

Have you reported it to DoC?

DoC have so much on their plate that you can't expect them to be chasing down cowboys. Maybe if one of the registered guiding companies calls BS. Here's an upcoming trip on The Crossing https://app.waywiser.co.nz/trips/189

I, initially was a bit outraged after reading the above about WayWise but (as I am in bed with a bad back and have time to spare) I've just been checking out their web site, trips and 'Terms & Conditions'. At this point it just seems to be a site where like minded souls can get together to share transport etc. and they, really, are an "adventure sporting" organisation. Thus most of their trips seem to be climbing, mountain biking and trail running:- https://app.waywiser.co.nz/search Going through the list of trips to come, there are only 3 which fall within National Parks. A car share to The Old Ghost Road for tramping:- https://app.waywiser.co.nz/trips/148 and a car swap on the Routeburn for trail running:- https://app.waywiser.co.nz/trips/173 and a trail run on the Travers Sabine:- https://app.waywiser.co.nz/trips/159 The Old Ghost Road guy says: "the plan would be to share fuel cost and hutt (sic) booking. Have a beer and enjoy the trail." WayWise disassociate themselves from the trips which are run by an "organiser" for "users":- They say "WayWiser is not a tour operator or provider of Adventures, and is not responsible for the organisation or success of any Adventure. " They do talk about "Payment Tool means any payment facility provided by the Website including Cost Sharing, Tipping and Donation facilities." and "a service fee of 3% of the value of any payment made through the Website (except in the case of Donations where no service fee will apply)." "Tipping means our Payment Tool that allows Users to make voluntary payments to other Users with whom they have participated in an Adventure." Thus for me, at the moment, I see this site as similar to people arranging trips through NZ Tramper BUT if they choose to pay the 'organiser' of a trip through WayWise then WayWise gets a 3% cut. Perhaps, in the future it may become what eponymous fears, but I don't see that as the reality at the moment and think its an excellent idea - similar to tramping club cost sharing but for people who don't know each other. Mind you, it appears eponymous has some inside knowledge of 'free gear' and 'discounts' and may know far more than is obvious on the web site.

I havnt looked at the site but as deepriver states the waywiser model would apply here if we had to pay a membership fee to this site. Taken to extreme it applies to tramping clubs the same way. However there is a big difference between covering costs and doing something for reward and that is where this might come unstuck. A lot of health and safety law defines getting paid as working for reward. An example from electrical law is that I can as a home owner replace a power point in my house. However if I was to do exactly the same in my rented flat then the rent makes that working for reward and therefore disallowed. There is a risk paying guides via product from a 3rd party qualifies as the same and its only a small step from there to defineing this as a guiding operation that needs Doc conseessions

I haven't looked at what's happening in detail but s170 of the Conservation Act states that a concession is required for every activity UNLESS it meets one of the exception criteria. http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1987/0065/latest/whole.html#DLM104635 One of the criteria (4) is individuals or groups undertaking recreational activities for their own benefit, and for which there's no specific gain or reward. (5) then clarifies that a group can impose a reasonable charge for the purposes of recovering costs, which is the main thing that lets clubs off the hook. If that's all that's happening here then it's probably fine . If somebody is profiting then it mightn't be. Edit: I think the above only applies to Conservation Areas and at first glance from my phone I can't find the equivalent for National Parks. I'd be surprised if it's not there somewhere, but if more relevance is exactly how it's worded.

guiding companies have to pay a fee for every client they take onto DOC land, in national parks at least.. i'd want to be rock solid around whether you'd be liable for any accidents.... then thers the question of whether they have to fit within the guildelines of commercial outdoors companies that have to pass a safety audit at their own expense, if the guides are technically freelance then they each may have to pass an audit in order to be able to legally operate taking clients on organised trips.

WayWiser is a limited liability company. https://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/5695707 Any payment made via the website has a 3% service fee applied. That's an income and has to be declared. Seems to me they are operating as an 'agent'.

Watch this space. So to come some poor old soul saying he had a great idea which was bullied into the ground by do gooders. Thats how Stuff will word it but if he isnt following the law tough luck

could be like a club pay an annual sub Difference might be, a tramping club might be Not for Profit whereas this outfit my not qualify as Not for Profit, maybe?