How many tramping deaths is OK?

Are international tourist incidents the most common, or just the ones most reported and remembered? If there's general comfort with the idea that things are about right as-is, and it's reasonable hold people responsible for doing their own research from the info available and take responsibility, then does it not also make sense to consider locals and tourists equally?

most of the deaths in recent years tend to be international tourists there would appear to be a difference in general with how nzers will go about planning and executing their trip to the mountains compared to the average tourist.if youre an nz tramper you're likely to have far better word or mouth knowledge of tramping in nz especially in you local area than a foreigner, so even though a nzer may not even actively research a trip more than a foreigner they are often starting with better base knowledge about what they are undertaking than a foreigner, seasoned trampers look at the gear of some trampers and alarm bells start ringing but the ill equipped foreigners just dont see any issues at all. i did bushcraft courses with some very experienced instructors, and they tended to take a hard line on making sure you are prepared thoroughly for the outdoors, and that it wasnt something you took lightly.

Here's an interesting chart from Te Ara. http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/graph/9874/tramping-fatalities-1920s-2000s It also conjectures that the rise is due to international tourism, but it doesn't cite any sources to back up this claim. Other metrics have been changing in parallel such as population growth, increased accessibility, increased acceptance of entering the outdoors for everyone (not just weirdos), and the increase in people going tramping independently of clubs. It'd be good to have some real numbers. Does anyone tally them?

Just to really through ice water on the subject the major tracks have the most accidents but is that in proportion to the higher nos using that track? You rarely here of winter incidents at Mungahuka but how many go there in winter?

For sure there are likely more accidents (Or more publicised accidents at any rate), on the more popular tracks. More numbers, likelihood of someone making an error increases. However popular tracks are (sometimes/generally) more maintained than more out of the way tracks, but the more experienced tend to be those on the more out of the way tracks. I would have to agree that in my experience you see more people who appear to be tourists less well equipped for the new zealand conditions. However, just because someone seems like a tourist doesnt mean they are. Tempting to just assume anyone you see unprepared is a tourist. Gotta be careful making any judgements.

only to a certain extent, abel tasman has massive no's and few incidents, no deaths, waikaremoana, no recent issues apart from the bridge breaking., no deaths on people doing the round the mountain track, heaphy track few incidents, theres been a death in the area but not sure that was someone walking the track... its as much to do with the geology of the area and the quality of the track underfoot.. for the no's on it the issues on tongariro arent surprising, a lot of people also climb taranaki, almost all the issues are in the colder months, cascade saddle has less people on it than the great walks and its more seasonal in its use. the routeburn has the highest no's on it, masive no's of day walkers and guided as well as doc freedom walkers... the weather seasons changing has caught people out on occasion. being unprepared for bad weather.

Quite frankly I don’t believe any deaths are acceptable and zero is the number that would be acceptable. But the very nature of the activity being undertaken, it is such that you cannot legislate nor serve notices to individuals who wish to embark on an adventure. Tramping for most of us I believe is an adventure, for whatever reason we undertake it. Any journey into the mountains is an adventure. I consider that it is down to the individual to exercise responsibility and common sense to ensure their protection. Yes, I know there are a lot that don’t, but I do not believe that we should be our brother’s keepers. If that was the case then no one would ever venture forth. I get sick and tired of hearing complaints about where the main comment is “no one told us” or “there were no signs to warn us”. To those people I would say where were your brains, in the back side of your pants. And the comment s of more signage and what can we do are equally superfluous. Common sense legislation combined with sensible signage where required is all that is needed. Beyond that it over to the individual and their ability to exercise common sense In their chosen activity. If you choose to ignore the information available or fail to look up information on your chosen activity then you are exercising your choice to be brainless and deserve whatever consequences descend upon you. Personal responsibility and common sense is what is required, not more heavy handed legislation from the nanny state.

Hi Frank. What would Common Sense Legislation be?

ha, all the old hands will know what a dearth of information there used to be on tracks and routes, you went almost by dead reckoning and better know how to use a compass and read a map and read between the lines and just dealt with whatever you came across as you went , and made your decisions accordingly, surprise was all part of the trip. you just accepted whatever challenges you came across

@izogi Thanks for that question, considering that most politicians don’t have the common sense to behave like intelligent educated adults in the house the odds on getting anything near common sense legislation is nigh on impossible. I think that much of the legislation in place is based on common sense. Especially that which is associated with the construction of buildings bridges etc. But the problem we have is that more and more vociferous minorities are pressing excessive rules and regulations. With much of the reasoning behind this being, to make others responsible for an individual’s own short comings and judgments. It’s the whinging and whining fruit loops of this world that are responsible for the excessive signage that exists in some places. Have a look at some of the huts these days. They have more signs per square metre that a public street. Duh! A single room dwelling with an exit sign on the only door, that is not visible in the dark. I guess it’s there to prevent the idiot that walked into the wall and broke his nose in the middle of the night from suing Doc because they couldn’t find the door. Common sense has gone right out the window in many instances. Next will come, “This Is A Door”, “Lift Latch To Open” , “Do Not Open Until You Have Ascertained There Is No One On The Other Side”, “Please Close Door After you Have entered”, “Like Wise On Exit”, heaven forbid what they might come up with on an open fireplace. Short of banning everything and every activity that may have some risk involved there will always be fatal mistakes.