taranaki deaths 2013

Oh I don't know ... warm fine days, big meandering valleys, nice tracks, big cool rivers with massive swimming holes, endless new huts to discover, big tops and bigger views .... did I mention nice weather?

the expectation that recent graduates of an alpine course were going to be able to make effective decisions was a major mistake and created confusion. the less experienced ended up following the more experienced, who themselves had over extended themselves in the forecast worsening conditions. although the less experienced members werent rookies in the mountains, it all comes down to having APPROPRIATE EXPERIENCE for the are and conditions.. an understanding of the difficulties of recognising various snow and ice conditions and interpret your effectiveness in being able to negotiate those conditions. recognising when to turn back, and not being afraid of being the first one who turns back. I'm a bit surprised that someone didnt say they had an ominous feeling and wanted to turn back, but they all seemed to have confidence based on what the experienced people were doing ahead... If you're really uncomfortable with teh scenario unfolding, say so, even if it means turning others around to help you back down. you have a right to say how you feel. you have a right to cast doubt on the way the trip is unfolding. Ed hillary himself said you havent successfully climbed a mountain until you have come back safe, and that should be what is in your mind. What will it take to return safely. are you willing to give what you think it will take to summit AND RETURN SAFELY , too often people give their all to summit without much thought for the extra effort to return back safely. "summit fever" can blind you to the full picture of climbing a mountain... you need to reassess your decisions whenever circumstances change. when the terrain becomes more difficult when the weather deteriorates when you fall behind your planed timetable when someone in the groups energy or wellbeing deteriorates. when the situation is harder than you expected. have a think about the best course of action as you go, before it becomes too late to turn back...

It's not easy wayno. Even just the two of us on a day trip up from Mitre Flats Hut up to Mitre itself turned up an example of this. There was just myself and a good mate, a fair bit younger and faster. We'd gotten well past bushline and probably within 30 min of the summit and I just got cold feet. For no especially good reason, (except perhaps old age and laziness) I suggested this was far enough and it was time to head back down. Now this isn't any dramatic tale of the weather suddenly turning on us, or how my 'intuition' saved our bacon. But the timing did turn out fortuitous, we met up with the rest of the group on their way out the Barra in a timely fashion and all was well. Two interesting things; my mate respected my wishes without grumble or complaint. He did ask if I was sure, but when I said yes, there was no question. We both turned and headed down. Yet oddly enough to this day I still feel ambivalent about it. Part of me still feels like I 'wimped out'. Unreasonable but still real.

Re Mitre Ive turned back within 200 meters of the summit We could see it sometimes. Didnt help that we had crawled the previous kilometer because of the wind and it was getting stronger. We opted to walk through the field of spaniards on the way down instead of staying on the ridge. Its a bad day when you chose to walk through them

plenty of time have had to delay travel, or use alternative, because of wind/rain etc on the Tararua Tops because so many huts, and the routs in and out and between are over the tops, the risk is near constant. and descending into a valley isn't always the solution. getting blown over and having to crawl a bit on the Tararua tops is one things, at 2000+ metres, in ice etc - I imagine it would be impossible (or fatal). Not understanding this when climbing likes of mt taranaki, is sure to end badly

@PhillipW You certainly did not come across as an armchair critic, I was just trying to highlight the difficulties of critiquing these events through the media and without actually being there. One other point which others have touched on is the difficulty of simply turning around and heading back down the route. Sometimes (and I can't be sure in this case) down climbing or abseiling a route is actually more time-consuming and dangerous than continuing to the summit and descending another way. It may not be summit fever that leads them up but the only way of escape from the mountain. Anyone who has tried rock climbing will know that down climbing is much harder than climbing up and the same is true for mixed ice/rock/snow routes such as this. It appears in this case that the group may not have had the confidence to descend unroped and they may have had little in the way of technical equipment or skill for fixing anchors for abseiling (for example they only had 35m ropes). I am however only speculating on this. The key when climbing some (often more technical or routes that involve a traverse) alpine routes is to know when you have reached a point on the route I call the "last turn around point". This is where continuing on to the summit and out is likely quicker than descending or it is where continuing on is going to make it very difficult to descend the way you came; both of which mean you are now committed to climbing the route. Not all routes will have this but it is important to identify if you think you have one as it is a key decision point in your climb. In reality, unless you know the route it is often difficult to know exactly where this "last turn around point" is and conditions on alpine routes can vary so much that even local knowledge may not help much. Because of this, you can sometimes climb past this point of "last turn around" without knowing and then realise later that you are now trapped on a route with the best option for safe descent to climb on to the summit

i wouldnt mind a dollar for every person who's ended their mitre peak climb at peggy's peak... just shy of mitre, or 1330...

the perceived turnaround point on this trip was probably over estimated, normally its faster going back down on the northern side. but the deteriorating weather and greater exposure to the weather and the top made it a lot harder than expected to get to the northern route. making the turnaround route sooner than they thought. it was crucial an experienced person realise this and make a decision to turn the less experienced people around and may have prevented more fatalities if not a far bigger rescue operation.. always take emergency shelter with you.. it can make the difference between life and death. in this case, no one had any, one person thought they did, but couldnt find it..

"when you have reached a point on the route I call the "last turn around point". This is where continuing on to the summit and out is likely quicker than descending or it is where continuing on is going to make it very difficult to descend the way you came; both of which mean you are now committed to climbing the route." That's a good way to express it. I can think of an example when I was stuck in Tarn Ridge Hut for five days with a non-stop howling westerly rocking everything. On about the third day it may have eased a bit and I set off along the ridge to Girdlestone, hoping to make it over Mitre and down off the tops. But just after the turn-off to Dorset there is a little step in the ridge. In the wind and clag it looked of course way bigger than it really is. Getting up it looked doable, but coming back down less so. But I'd never traversed this part of the ridge before and I had no idea what lay beyond. I crouched there for a bit and concluded that if I pushed past this step but found conditions further on even worse ... I'd be in a bit of strife trying to retreat on my own. So once again the 'wimp' factor kicked in and I retreated back to the hut. Being perfectly aware this is a dead common tramping route made the sense of defeat even more acute; but on this occasion I'm sure I made the right decision.

Kirsten had an orange plastic survival bag. But yeah, plan B. Also interesting to read about the chaos on the ground. Seems leadership was missing there too... Don't set your hopes too high marooned above 2300 metres. SAR volunteers were great, and willing to put their time and life into this, but the story doesn't give you the feeling that the people paid by the taxpayer to "direct" these searches had done any of them.