Missing Mongrel Mob now a real hagiography

I wonder if this whole thread does more harm to this group than it does inform people or advise. I wonder if Mathew should read the whole lot and see if it belongs or if it should disappear. Its going round in circles just bringing up an old event that wasnt really tramping related

it's a pity that the poster who started this thread has done so only to celebrate the demise of two human beings. He enjoys the fact that two humans have died. Because they are a part of society that he so despises, he is more than happy to rejoice in the fact that they died in horrific and agonising circumstances. This to me is as sad as the lives that would have led them to make the adult choices in life that they chose. This thread is not positive to this forum. It is not a thread about concerns about two souls lost in the backcountry. I do though, think, this thread has shown the concern and compassion of the regular users of this site.

I shared some of the OPs distaste at our seeming need to sanctify people once they have died. In death we all deserve respect. Respect for who we truely were and what we truely did. We are all flawed human beings and to pretend we are saints denegrates our memory as much as focussing only on the negative does. Speaking of which, focussing only on the negative is precisely what the more recent post from the OP does. The mistakes I've made in my life have caused many times more hurt than that caused by the stealing of one car. Should my memory likewise be damned? Remember people for all that they were - the pretty and the ugly.

I don’t agree. I don’t know Berend,but I viewed his opening comments as a an attack on the style of reporting of the incident as being similar to the Hagar method of lots of supposition and innuendo designed to provide an alternative point of view with very little fact to back it up. Which is all too common today. In that respect I think Berend was right and I do not see that viewpoint as necessarily being wrong. In fact I agreed with his point of view. The media had used an inflammatory mode of reporting. I did not consider Berends comments as being celebratory of the loss of two lives. This style of reporting these days is all too common. I do not condone it. Plus my subsequent comments reflect the view that the needless loss of two lives is tragic. But it doesn’t alter the view that choices were available, those involved had the choice to make a decision that would have meant they would still be alive today, instead they chose to ignore the legitimate request of law enforcement officers and paid with their lives. That is tragic. I consider the whole conversation as actually irrelevant to tramping as such. But relevant to the manner in which similar events that are tramping related are reported. Simply refer to our comments on the inaccuracies of some events reported. Perhaps Berends choice of words or phraseology didn’t quite come across, but he doesn’t deserve to be pilloried for his point of view any more than the victims of this tragic event. Enough said.

I didn't look hagiography up in the dictionary ... but hagia is greek for holy (e.g. hagia sofia == holy knowledge) So I assumed @BdeB meant a sanctifying story of their lives in the tradition of the medaeval 'Lives' of the saints. Which are very similar in whitewashing style to the linked news story. Making the original point about the media quite valid.

Frank, I don’t disagree that media reporting is often quite unbalanced. What I object to (and was made very clear in his last post), is Berend drawing conclusions that he has no factual information to support, such as his suggestion that these people participated in a rape, gang rape, stabbing or murder. It shows a complete lack of knowledge about gangs (and a willingness to immediately assume the worst based on a sliver of information) as well as zero compassion for people who have met a horrendous end regardless of the walk of life they came from or the choices which led to their deaths. I agree with Geeves that this thread should possibly be removed.

Mosley, Gangs are what they are and my associations tend to confer that such conclusions in many instances are not far off the mark. Hence my comments in relation to my younger brother in a previous comment, his demise at 30 in dubious circumstances left a lot of unanswered questions. Perhaps the request to have Matthew remove the thread is the right one. L

are we to be judge jury and executioner now based on vague reporting in the news? this forum is focused about what happens in the bush, not prejudging people for the lives they may supposedly have led based on organisations or people they associate with..

Hi everybody, I think as a first recourse, it is simply time to wind up this thread and move on. I think everything has been said that needs to be said. I Think further discussion is simply harmful to the community here. I propose closing this thread later this evening. In regards removal of posts or the entire thread, I am not convinced that is warranted, while I don’t agree with speculations about the victims. Message me your concerns. Matthew / moderator

waynowski, at the risk of being inflammatory I would ask why not? Are you satisfied with the way in which the legal system place more emphasis on criminal rights than the victims. Is it because the general public are no longer willing to stand up and be counted no matter the cost to show the criminal element they cannot push us around. Or have we all just become accustomed to the current situation and would rather not make a stand. The reporting of these matters in the manner that takes place today is an abomination. Criminals are getting away with murder and the victims are let to clean up the best they can. It's the victims with the life sentence not the perpetrators. The legal profession and the media need to stop trying to whitewash the criminals lives. I can accept parents and families endeavouring to find solace by putting their view across. But to have the legal profession and the media trying to whitewash the lives of some who have a long list of convictions and blame everyone and everything else for the position these criminals are in is absolute garbage. The namby pamby brigade need to look the reality in the face. I have already said it, the loss of life in any circumstances is tragic, but THEY HAD A CHOICE, don't try to eliminate that fact. Matthew! remove this thread before I get into a real snot and upset everyone.