Gore-Tex: Quality -> Marketing ratio

I wonder about those flexothane coats. Those that have them swear by them but acknowledge they are bulky and heavy. The advertising suggests they are breathable. Is this true?

There's some scientific stuff in here! Cheers Wayno in particular. Now, I love tech that makes getting out and about more enjoyable and sustainable, and am constantly aware of and (pretty much) prepared for survival situations (although, I'd be lying out my bunghole if I said I ever thought about quicksand in NZ), but I honestly have a rather rudimentary approach to clothing. If I'm moving, I don't care about being wet. My body generates ridiculous heat with even minimal movement. So whilst I'm moving, I'm all good. The only time I even think about wanting to be dry is when I've stopped. And really, only when I've stopped for a sustained period. So wearing "dry" clothing whilst tramping holds little value to me. I ALWAYS carry an emergency shelter, so even in a torrential downpour, I can get reasonably dry and warm. Footwear; gonna be wet! Clothing; gonna be wet! Breathable? So long as 'I' can breathe, I don't really care about breathable. So long as I avoid chafing, I'm pretty comfortable walking in most conditions. Chafing sucks rocks. At the end of the day, if I'm feeling like I just want to be really comfortable, I don't go tramping; I stay home. And sure, that happens. I go tramping in order to mix it with nature. I love when it's a torrential downpour, or I get hit with something unexpected. Here's my question: how much does your clothing change depending on how long you're out for?

it changes according to what the weather forecast is, irrespective of duration...

Thanks wayno, interesting! There is also a quite complete article on the NSW bushwalking website: http://bushwalkingnsw.org.au/clubsites/FAQ/FAQ_Rainwear.htm Though the weather and bush conditions are different there, it's still a very interesting read.

Thanks wayno for the interesting read. My take is similar to Kreig's ... in our NZ conditions you are ALWAYS going to be at the very least damp. Or worse, sometime even saturated. This strongly suggests most people approach the clothing question the wrong way around. The question should not be "will this keep me dry?", rather is should be "how will this perform when it is wet?". Indeed I believe the best way to determine clothing performance is to find a cold river, on a chill windy day, and jump in neck deep! Then when you get out, dripping wet you will quickly discover: 1. Does your clothing drain well? 2. Does it keep the wind out when wet? 3. How quickly does it start to dry from your body heat when you are moving? 4. Can you still move without your clothing binding, grabbing or chaffing badly? 5. Or did you die of hypothermia?

"At the end of the day, if I'm feeling like I just want to be really comfortable, I don't go tramping; I stay home." I do this a lot too. Or I'll go for a daywalk in a rain shadow area e.g. Bank Peninsula when it's raining on the main divide or maybe quite east in the foothills of the ranges east of the main divide. The only time I will willingly tramp in a decent amount of rain is on Stewart Island where it's not that cold. It's too miserable for me to get damp and cool down when I stop to eat lunch. With the excellent forecasting sites now available I generally avoid rainy days out.

@geeves, My flexothane (Line 7) raincoat is as waterproof and breathable as a PVC coat... Quite tough, stretchy fabric is nice, coat is weighty and bulky. The Warehouse PVC coated nylon jackets for about $30 aren't too bad either, tough enough for bushbashing, some people might find them a bit short (you get a wet a..e), the hood is not the greatest, works best with a cap or visor underneath (as do most hoods) and I've had one delaminate rather quickly. You can find some quite good deals on WPB jackets at rural supplies or work safety type place/websites.

the australian article doesnt cover waterproof breathable gore tex type technology at all, its talking about shower proof or non breathable layers. relying on shower proof layers tends to be very risky in nz for most people.

+1 to Kreig's comments. I focus on staying warm not dry while moving and get changed into dry clothes at the hut/camp/car. I guess that is why I prefer the flexothane coat as what I have found with the more modern breathable type fabrics is that when they start to wear I not only get wetter but also colder. I've never found any raincoat to be particularily breathable - similar level of dampness after tramping in the rain in PVC, flexothane or the breathables. The oringi coat also has enough length to cover your shorts adequately(actually use their farm wear hi-vis coat as their tramping one is too long for a shortie like me) but definately have to wear a cap under the hood or it falls over my eyes.

The one question I kept coming back to was this; anyone over a certain age recalls with great fondness the classic kiwi Swandri. Beloved of hunters especially, everyone who has used one in tough conditions speaks highly of how well they worked. Except of course that when the swanny finally did saturate it weighed a ton and took a week to dry. But that should not distract from why people liked them so much. What rarely gets mentioned in NZ (because no-one sells them here) are the 'non-membrane' fabrics, such as the Paramo family. These are also highly breathable and are very popular in the UK especially. In an attempt to find a modern version of a Swandri, about 8 years ago my partner and I purchased two Cioch Glamaigs (fully lined) and they are still going strong. http://www.cioch-direct.co.uk/waterproofs/glamaig.html We've used them in a wide range of conditions with good success. Certainly they are very comfortable garments. Drawbacks are the need to renew the DWR every year or so, and they aren't fashionably light. The big upside is that in cool damp conditions you can wear them as a nice warmth layer and because there is no membrane, the breathability keeps working over a wide range of conditions. Late in the piece I woke up to what really experienced people twigged to ages ago. The layer you wear next to your skin is more important to comfort than anything else. This link is fascinating: http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/antidote_to_grimness Yes ... bloody old string vests! The Norwegians invented them and have never given up on them. I'm dead keen to get hold of something like this one day: http://www.nordiclife.co.uk/products/brynje-super-thermo-t-shirt In the meantime I just use a fine merino base layer under the Glamaig for moving in cool conditions, when it warms up both of these come off and I just use a poly/nylon exercise tee from Rebel Sports. When I stop or camp, out comes the Montbell down puffer jacket over a dry merino layer. Nothing else needed.