Alpine sleeping bags

yes and no. the EN ratings are a rating for the average person. how hot or cold you will be in a sleeping bag can vary a lot from person to person. go on your experience in the past as to what side of the spectrum you might fall, women tend to feel the cold more and be below the rating of the bag on average, but if you're fit and healthy you could still have an above average metabolism, depends how much natural insulation you have and age as well. yes wearing insulated clothes helps, a decent down jacket will help a lot. the cut of the bag matters. a closer cut is better for warming you up, but not everyone likes tighter sleeping bag shapes and you need to be sure you can fit enough clothes on in the bag as well.

if you can find someone who has a bag for the rating you think you'll need that hasnt degraded too much over time, and try that in low temps to get an idea for how warm you will be in a bag of that rating

Hi As a rough guide, I have a macpac sanctuary 500 lite which is much lighter and that will take me down to 2 or 3 degrees using every bit of cunning and gear I can lay my hands on. You probably know this but if you don't...if you're going to wear extra clothing inside the bag, you need to ensure the bag is not too tight a fit or your down clothing (and maybe the down bag) will get compressed. The macpac bag performed at what it was rated for but needed extra clothing and being completely closed at the neck muff and hood drawcords to the max possible as I am a cold sleeper.

Hi, welcome to our forum. Just to add to Honora's point about size, I've found that for many years I overlooked the importance of of comfort. It wasn't until I got hold of a Montbell UL Spiral Stretch that I realised how a badly fitting, or more critically a bag that doesn't work with your sleeping style, will be colder and far less restful. I'm one of those annoying side-sleeping people who tends to toss and turn in the night. The reason why I purchased the Montbell was the unique spiral bias and diagonal baffles means the fabric moves and drapes with less stress and compression which is supposedly key to keeping light weight fill bags nice and toasty. At least that was the story which sold me. I mail ordered it via Grant Guise at iclimb.co.nz and when I first unpacked my brand new UL-3 (about 700gms total) my heart sank when I held it up to the light ... damn me if it looked awfully thin. Still it's very first night out was a mid-winter overnighter into Mitre Flats (Tararuas). The weather was cold, miserable and the big empty hut a fridge. Much to my huge surprise I had a great night's sleep and woke up refreshed. Nowadays that's what I look for in a bag more than anything else, something that drapes well, fit's your sleeping style and feels good to sleep in. (Edit: It looks like Grant no longer stocks sleeping bags, but they are still available elsewhere. )

@Wanderwild have you seen these? http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/convert/ http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/revelation/ http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/enigma/ http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/prodigy/

Have heard of climbers who take no sleeping bags (or a very lightweight bag) on overnight winter climbs and mostly rely on their down jackets and other clothing... Sounds miserable to me.

I highly recommend a Sea to Summit (I know, to some that's The Company That Should Not Be Named) thermal liner. It adds serious warmth to whatever bag you use. I have a Kelty dri-down bag (EN 4F) that is AMAZING! and only cost me $240 (shipping and exchange rate included) from Amazon. I call it my big red tomato. Only downside - it's bulky. But for absolute comfort and warmth, I've never come across a better one, especially for the price. However, like you I was looking for a less bulky alternative, especially for extended trips. Enter the thermal liner. To emphasise how much I value this liner, let me put it into context. When I first moved to NZ, I only had a Kathmandu Comet bag, which is basically a summer bag. I used it on a mid-winter Scout camp, and froze my arse off! That same bag with the liner and a basic set of thermals has me toasty. In the middle of winter. In a tent in the snow. The other bit of kit that allows this level of comfort is my thermal inflatable mattress. No, not Thermarest. Klymit Static V. Just like clothing, I believe sleeping systems are all about layering. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps. :)

I have an Exped Woodpecker (no longer available) which is comfort rated down to -1 for women with 630g of 750 fill down. Specs: http://www.moontrail.com/exped-woodpecker-lg.php Spent the night in a tent up on the summit plateau of Ruapehu this weekend, and with all my clothes on (incl. synthetic insulation jacket) I was just comfortable enough (I tend to sleep fairly cold). We reckon it dropped below -10C outside. If I was buying a bag specifically for winter camping I would go for something warmer than my Woodpecker. Philip's suggestion of the Montbell Spiral is worth checking out. My Mum has one and it is super comfy and feels snug, although I haven't field tested it.

Yep, my brother has the MontBell spiral too and gives it the thumbs up.