Multi day pack - some guidance

You seem to be guessing at volume requirements. What size is your current pack, and can you extrapolate from that what volume you need? “Enough space for 4 days” is a 35-40L pack for me personally, in summer, so specific volume is more useful. What features do you want? Specific recommendations aren’t that helpful if you’re main requirement is “comfortable.” The best way to know if something is comfortable is to go to a good shop, load it up with the sort of weight you’ll be carrying (make sure to include water, food and gas weight) and get it fitting right. What’s comfortable for me might be very different for you. Personally I aim for very simple packs. One big top loading roll top main compartment (zips are the main failure point on packs and all outdoor gear really), accessible water bottle pockets, and a quick access pocket on the rear. Top lids/brains add weight, slow down access to my kit, I don’t need that much organization to have lots of pockets (more I don’t have much in excess of basic necessities). Though many packs don’t have a quick rear mesh pocket, so a brain may be good in those contexts. Surprisingly common on a lot of packs is the lack of accessible water bottle pockets. Having to stop to take your pack off to drink water (or unpack it to load a water bladder back in) is going to leave you dehydrated. Hipbelt pockets and rear mesh are all the organization I need. Hipbelts keep phone, sun cream, little scroggin, soap, a few basic first aid bits (full first aid stuff in my pack). The rear mesh keeps my layers that come on and off through the day, and usually my lunch for the day. This basic style of pack isn’t that common, as big shops sell people on features (more is better!). Most of the time features, extra Pockets add weight that doesn’t really make like any simpler - the opposite. Water proofing is largely unnecessary-it fails eventually, unless you go for water sports bags (which are generally not comfortable for tramping). Pack covers don’t work that well, but pack liners/rubbish bags are pretty fail safe. Anyway, I go for the lightest pack that has the features (or lack of) that I want, meet my volume requirements, fit me well and be comfortable (the last two are non-negotiable). Osprey has a good reputation, and most people say their packs are comfy. Sierra designs sells the “flex capacitor” which looks like an interesting pack which is capable of carrying heavy loads. Similarly expeds Lightning pack impressed me when I tried it at Bivouac - I didn’t get it due to the lack of rear pocket (if I did more off trail bush wacking this would be good). When you find something that seems to fit well, meets volume requirements and has features (or lack of) that you like, you can then go down the rabbit hole of looking at reviews about durability etc. It’s useless for me to tell you I find a pack comfy because we have differentbodies. I would think a good outdoors store would let you take the pack on an hour or two walk Fully loaded up and return it (if you don’t mark obviously) if it doesn’t feel right. You’ll know within that time walking on some hills if things aren’t going to work.

My advice would be to take you old pack with all the gear you would normally take on a trip in to a store. Then pack all the gear in to any packs you like and have a walk around them on. You should fairly quickly know whether they feel comfortable or not. (Make sure you adjust all the straps to the best fit for you and don't forget the little load adjuster ones up above your shoulders.). Packing your actual gear allows you to 1) see that it all fits and 2) allows you to experience the pack with your gear distributed how it would be on a tramp. Some stores have sandbags for you to put in a pack to feel it with weight but when you tramp all your weight isn't sitting right at the bottom of the pack like the sand bags do. Most outdoors stores should be fine with you doing this — I used to love doing this with customers. I am not sure which stores would actually let you take packs out in to the "wild" so to speak then return them. To be frank many people are ***holes and they wouldn't think twice of returning the pack if it was damaged then kick up a stink if you would not refund it. Then it is straight on social media trashing the store. (But maybe I am too negative!). @dreambroom raises good points about considering exactly what features you want from a pack and not getting talked in to extras. Not only can they cost more, add weight and failure points but they can also get caught in bush if you are off track and hinder your progress/increase the chance of injury. I tend to try to minimise size (and hence weight) and have found the systems that keep an air gap between your back and the pack very good (I use the Deuter Spectro AC 36 for all trips but it has a different system to the Air Contact so can't comment on that). Beyond that hip pocket(s) are something my pack doesn't have that I would like and I do like a separate lid pocket for storing my map, compass, PLB (I know it should be on my body), loo paper and some snacks. Otherwise most other features I find unnecessary. And as @dreambroom mentioned no packs are truely waterproof unless they are a PVC roll top job so don't fall for that one! Good luck in the search and have fun.

Dont write off the Macpac packs because of reviews. Every bad review will have 10 good ones as well. Same with Katmandu. Biggest problem people have with their gear is the salesman that sold them something unsuitable. When you have no staff in the shop except when the sale is on you cant get knowledgeable salespeople. Size wise. You know the size of your current pack and how much space you have. Only thing you need to add for multi day is the extra food so you should be able to work out how much space you need and whether it means you need a bigger or smaller pack. I always envey those that say they can do multi day trips in a 35l pack. I struggle to do day walks with a pack that size but a lot comes down to how well you can pack the other gear you have. A sleeping bag can be 10l or 1l and the same warmth, same with a lot of other gear. As for the current pack not being comfortable. Is it fitted correctly. Macpac have an instruction on how to fit a pack on their website

Good point re: staff in big box shops (macpac and Katmandu etc). There are obviously great staff in some stores, but the training and knowledge is minimal and geared toward selling stuff. So you’ll often get someone good, but only because they already know their stuff. I like independent climbing and tramping stores in small towns for pretty reliably having knowledable staff. Macpac and Kathmandu have some good kit, the former seems to be producing better stuff again lately. But it is sandwiched in between low quality stuff - I noticed Kathmandu sell the same trousers I got from a big box store in the UK at £8. With the Kathmandu logo on they were $120... I was wearing them at the time, and every detail seemed to be the same apart from the logo. So clearly being imported from a generic supplier who can slap a logo on. But, their gore shakedry jacket is the most impressive rain jacket I’ve owned, so it’s just about paying attention to details and doing some reading before making a purchase. Also a good point to check how your current pack is fitting - could be a simple fix to save you $300. @geeves pack size. I got back into tramping after many years and was uncomfortable with my old heavy army surplus gear (as a fifteen year old I didn’t mind apparently!), and around that time the ultralight American ethos was becoming more mainstream so I learned a lot about that, and what ideas and concepts might translate here. So any new purchases I made I was just more weight conscious (whereas I would’ve fallen into the trap of being sold on features in the past) and have just been considerate about what I actually need to bring to be safe. Solo tramping I prioritize walking comfort, as I prefer to walk than sit in my tent or socialize in a hut. Walking is meditative and I enjoy really long days of it. If I’m with mates my pack size might double as I bring coffee, whiskey and some relevant luxuries - their trip priorities are more about the camping than the walking. Mostly it came down to leaving behind things that weren’t relevant for my safety on a given trip

Hi there, how good you are getting into extending your tramps. Your tramping club members will be a wealth of knowledge and experience so ask of them too. My Cactus is over 10 years old and has had a hard life with no sign of giving up. It's comfortable and capacious for 5+ days (60L). My wife swears by her Aarn and I might too if I didn't have my Cactus. Some would say the Cactus is on the heavy side so if that is a real consideration maybe the lighter fabric/construction is preferable. I originally brought mine because I wanted to buy local and Aarn is too (there are others). Either way, you learn as you go, make sure whatever you get is sized correctly.

Hi @Safeascents - who else still produces packs in NZ, besides Aarn? There's a new person down south - https://emptypacks.nz/ - though they're aiming very much at the ultralight market, doing just frameless packs at the moment and probably not suitable if your regularly carrying more than 9-10kg (he claims otherwise, but personally I find heavier than that uncomfortable without a proper frame).

Not NZ - but One Planet are still Aussie made and manage both ruggedness and comfort - though at a price. That's almost local and given that Aarn doesn't work for me and that I don't like the Cactus harness fit (or design) is my 'locally produced' compromise. Would disagree with the lumping of Macpac with Kathmandu above. In my experience of the two: Macpac (packs, sleeping bags) are still a premium brand of quality outdoor gear - even if not up to their previous standards. Kathmandu's own-brand has been selling Warehouse-quality products at premium-product prices for at least 15 years now. Vaguely remember them being better before that but ... I may just have been unlucky with Kathmandu ... but that's been my experience.

About 8 years ago I felt macpac had gone the way of Kathmandu with warehouse quality gear. They seem to have refocused in the last few years and produce some medium-high end stuff. But some of their stuff is still pretty generic low end, yet priced similarly - it’s worth paying attention to details. Yeah, most Kathmandu stuff is low quality, but I was surprised by their Gore Shakedry jacket. It’s the best rain jacket I’ve owned, and cheaper than the Rav eVent I used to have. It is aimed at the lightweight crowd and not suitable for anything off trail or scrambling, though. Good to know re One Planet. Had a look at Aarns website yesterday. I suspect it’s not produced in NZ anymore (or ever?) - they talk a lot about being NZ designs and NZ testing, with no mention of manufacture. I’ve sent an email to enquire. Still good to support a NZ designer, and I imagine it’s tough to manufacture in NZ and keep retail prices manageable.

@dreamboom I agree with your method of weight reduction in a financial mangeable way. It doesnt always work though and currently my winter sleeping bag is smaller and lighter than my summer bag. I havnt worried about this as summer is often river trips and if it gets wet (never has) a synthetic bag is still functional but down in winter no option. For me pack size is often about spare clothing. I usually carry a spare set plus in weather that is cool in the morning I might also be wearing a fleece that isnt going to be on all day so has to fit in the pack. My day pack is 40l and probably a little large but the next size down was 20 litres which was too small. Its also sub 1kg which for a full frame and airflow design is good enough. Weekender though is still a Macpac Torlese 75l which Ive had close to 10 years now. Not the lightest pack in that size but ok. I could use a 60l now but I have the 75. When I bought it there was minimal gear downsizing from a 80l second hand pack that gave me 5 years. That was the one that saw my biggest downsize as before that was a full external frame Hallmark of close to 100l which was only just big enough at the time. Even that was a downsize from its predecessor which eventually had a frame failure due to overloading. (or maybe a carton of stuubies taken on some trips. I was young then)