Couple missing in Kahurangi National Park
https://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/search-commences-overdue-trampers
Police are asking for the public's help to locate two trampers who failed to return from the Kahurangi National Park when expected.
Jessica O'Connor and Dion Reynolds, both 23 and from the Tasman area, started out on 9 May and have not yet returned.
The pair are understood to have entered near the Anatori River car park.
Police staff commenced a search today. This will resume again tomorrow morning.
Police are asking for anyone who has been around the Anatori, Webb, Kokopu, Independent and Fraser rivers since 8 May and who may have seen the pair to get in touch.
Anyone with information should contact Police on 105 and quote event number P042228949.
114 comments
on an operation like this they'd be flying more... they have their own schedule for training excercises . a big SAR op is likely to drive up their hours. plus its an unscheduled trip, they are based at Ohakea, so theres at least the cost of flying the crew down to the south island, then they have to accommodate them and feed them if they are basing themselves down there. they have to fly back and forward to the nearest airfield that can provide enough fuel for them they take a minimum of 2000 litres of fuel.. flying time of 5 hours roughly...
The NZDF annual reports make for interesting reading, but don't really break things down enough for useful numbers. http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/corporate-documents/annual-report/
Assisting civil power with search and rescue and recovery operations is covered by output 4.3, along with 13 other deliverables. The SAR deliverable includes maritime SAR, so it'd include when the NZDF sends Orions out on big searches over the ocean and similar. The report *does* say that for the year-ending 2019 the NZDF spent 180 flying hours between 4 land SAR ops (to insert and extract search teams) and 11 sea SAR ops, so that seems to average about 12 hours per op but it doesn't clearly distinguish average times between land and sea ops. Total support of Police and DOC is 154 hours, but that'll include other operations under different deliverables like cannabis operations and supporting DOC huts (both of which are mentioned for NH90s).
As far as the NH90 costs are concerned, it states they've now gotten themselves a simulator which makes financial costs and training time much lower and they can do it at Ohakea instead of Germany and Australia. I'm not sure if those costs contributed to the numbers you were quoting, Wayno.
For all of output 4.3, including the other 13 deliverables, the NZDF spent $82.7 million for the year-ending June 2019, but the report doesn't specify what portion of that was spent specifically on SAR. It's probably difficult to break it down when the expenses are so tangled up with everything else the NZDF allocates for.
I was just thinking, being an old hand at this tramping lark is one thing. But being in your 20s and inexperienced, yet supposedly bulletproof, is quite another. Romantic ideals about the bush will not keep you safe. I did my early training in a club, but that’s not for kids today. So just how do they get a respect for the dangers, and plan their trip accordingly? Maybe even factor in the essential safeguards discussed on this site? Practice a few navigation skills in advance? The Mountain Safety Council and DOC should have a responsibility, but it's a big silence from them. Besides, they represent ’the man’ and I’m guessing that listening to them is pretty uncool. Maybe these outward bound trips at school? Not everyone gets that opportunity. How about safety ads on social media? Maybe, but who pays? Educate yourself from the forums on this website? That’s possible, there's a lot of sagely advice available. My point is that modern society is increasingly detached from our natural environment, so when we engage, we’re often unprepared. And the bush is just as unforgiving as ever. So massive search operations such as this will be repeated, and not always as successfully. I think Eugenie Sage should get her head around this. We can do better. The Government has just decided to teach kids NZ history in school, after all, a little basic bushcraft can’t be that hard. Its hardly nanny state. And it could save lives.
"Educate yourself from the forums on this website? That’s possible, there's a lot of sagely advice available. My point is that modern society is increasingly detached from our natural environment, so when we engage, we’re often unprepared. And the bush is just as unforgiving as ever."
It doesnt matter how much advise you read or how good it is. There are parts of bushcraft that can only be learned by doing it.
Then when you have done it without instruction and it worked you are deemed experienced but are you?
If people are not joining clubs to learn these things and by clubs I include the likes of Scouts etc where are they learning. Schools at best only gloss over the basics although Polytechs do a nice 3 year full time course that teaches you how to teach these things amongst other more marketable skills so you can become a gym instructor.Deer stalkers is the odd one out. Maybe thats because you also get to play with guns but they are still teaching good numbers of people good skills and people want to go there.
Maybe there is an opening for someone to set themselves up as a professional outdoors instructor.
1
i grew up doing the dumbest things along with a lot of the guys from school who went tramping, no one experienced on the trips. I'm amazed we didnt come to more grief than being temporarily lost. mildly hypothermic and minor injuries and exhaustion... I got swept down a flooded river once,, luckily it wasn't badly flooded and it was a tame river or i wouldnt have lasted long..
theres a whole pyramid that for every death there are 100,000 incidents that are a near miss for an accident, 10,000 minor incidents. 1,000 minor injuries . 100 moderate injuries, 10 serious injuries...
1
OTNZ, which emerged out of the MSC's abandoned volunteer training programme, is trying to do good things but its resources are limited.
The pyramid model ond swiss cheese model. One shows how much luck plays in the result and one shows how much it doesnt. The pyramid model says that if you drive 100 cars into a power pole at 100kph then one person will die 9 will end up in icu 30 will end up in hospital 40 will break a finger nail and the rest no injury. The Swiss cheese model adds the complexity of why those 100 cars drove into the power pole in the first place.
Ive done this on a couple of things that have happened to me and the result is interesting at least
Think about some event you have had. Doesnt even have to make the level of incident or accident to get a result. Think about all the things that affected or could of affected what happened.
In my case the time I was within 5 minutes of pushing the button I had 11 things that caused what happened Some my fault some the other guys fault some out of our control. In the end beacon activation was prevented by 3 things. A phone call made by the potential victim the answer he got from that call from someone who knew about the trip but was not involved and what he did with that information.
In the Tararua search for Darrel Myres, the SH90 running cost was quoted as $27000/hour
And no, this is not instead of normal training costs. its a cost on the tax payer
1
VIDEO OF THE SEARCH
https://www.facebook.com/dwayne.lohmann.1/videos/10159215010844453/UzpfSTEwMDAwMTE0MDEzNzc0MTpWSzoyNTE0MzQ3NjQ4ODI3MDIz
Thanks, @TararuaHunter. It's interesting because there's been at least one media quote where a Police representative stated they thought the cost was in the region of $20k, which seems very low. (Edit: this one - https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018748606/no-charges-to-be-laid-against-missing-trampers-despite-lockdown )
I'm not clear on whether they're only talking about costs direct to Police or if the costs are just so mixed up and contributed from so many different places (services, volunteers, overheads vs direct costs) that calculating an exact cost is difficult and not necessarily meaningful anyway. Probably they just wanted to the question to go away because public reaction is so predictable.
Search the forums
Forum | The campfire |
---|---|
Started by | waynowski |
On | 19 May 2020 |
Replies | 113 |
Permanent link |
Participation in the forums signifies acceptance of forum rules.
In order to manage spam, new members are limited to 1 post every 10 minutes.
Formatting your posts
The forums support MarkDown syntax. Following is a quick reference.
Type this... | To get this... | |
---|---|---|
Italic | *Italic text* | *Italic text* |
Bold | **Bold text** | **Bold text** |
Quoted text | > Quoted text | > Quoted text |
Emojis | :smile: :+1: :astonished: :heart: | :smile: :+1: :astonished: :heart: |
Lists |
- item 1 - item 2 - item 3 |
- item 1 - item 2 - item 3 |
Links | https://tramper.nz | https://tramper.nz |
Images | ![](URL/of/image) URL/of/image |
![](/whio/image/icons/ic_photo_black_48dp_2x.png) |
Mentions | @username | @username |