foreigners pay double on southern great walks

routeburn has had a massive upgrade, widened the benched track all the way into routeburn flats hut, upgraded the bridges, a quad bike will get over most of them on the way to the flats. put in stairs on the steep areas, massive amounts gravel helicoptered in along the higher sections for miles and miles. the nos over overnight guided walkers was doubled in recent years which would increase the revenue to that track.... it encourages a lot more day walkers to come in who don't pay anything unless they are being guided. and there are masive amounts of day walkers including a lot of guided day walkers as well. so theres money pouring into that track...

Yes. Routeburn & Abel Tasman are probably unusual in that respect in that day walkers on the more accessible sections probably outnumber paying overnighters. But in the big picture that's no different to front country locations like Blue Pools or Mt Roy which see 10s of 1000s of visitors generating $0 of direct income and have seen plenty of investment required as tourist numbers ramp up. If hiking the fees on Gt Walks is about raising revenue for facilities in general then its asking the few to subsidise the many. If it's about limiting numbers then it's applying that limit based on wealth. Which both seem unfair.

DOC have to helicopter out everyones shit from the huts on those great walks, down south they have to helicopter in the gas for the huts, and for some huts fuel or heating... there is a massive amount of track maintenance to keep the tracks clear, after every storm over summer and a massive track clearing at the start of the season when the tracks can be obstacle courses of umerous tree falls and slips, i did the kepler after a storm, there were dozens of large trees blocking the track... i've seen massive slips as well. people want an easy track to walk on, it costs a lot more money to maintain that track to a high standard than cheaper tracks, great walks are basically dirt and stone paths, they clear the tree roots, and drain the tracks so theres minimal mud. want a cheap track in the same area? go and do the dusky track with miles of deep mud endless tree roots difficult ascents and descents and a track that is impassable in heavy rain... NZ taxpayers are subsidising foreigners as well.

Two points @wayno. 1) as a foreigner I'd like to know how the nz taxpayer (of which I am one) is subsidising me. Perhaps you mean tourists, rather than foreigners in gereral? 2) have we not already established in previous threads, through published data and @izogi's FOI requests, that great walks already bring in more revenue than they cost to run? So in what way, sticking to the topic of great walks, are nz taxpayers already subsudising tourists?

they are classifying tourist visitors as foreigners and so am I, anyone on a long term visas or who has residence will be classified as a NZer. DOC still claim they run at a loss. thats the official line... do we really know all the real figures? but thats another thread

>have we not already established in previous threads, through published data and @izogi's FOI requests, that great walks already bring in more revenue than they cost to run? Does anyone have the discussion refs handy? I can't remember the outcome off the top of my head. I'll try to dig them up later if nobody else does. I've found this thread. https://tramper.nz/forums/thread/9310 There might be others. From memory the whole comparison can be a bit convoluted, if only because DOC strictly aren't allowed to charge for anything except facilities (huts, bridges). DOC's explicitly not allowed to charge for tracks. Can you imagine if DOC charged for use of bridges? But it's still an expense, so in the scheme of things it's often considered acceptable to charge more for hut use than the specific cost of building and running that hut.

the minister was talking on the TV saying, they had done comparisons with overseas tracks, and decided that the price they have set is pretty much inline with the price set on similar walks overseas, so it may not entirely be to do with teh cost of maintaining the track, as much about "charging the going market rate" for the track In tasmania they have setup a similar walk recently, the Three Capes Walk , runs 40k's its like the milford track, you take a boat to get to it at one end, and including a bus trip out at the other the cost is $500, although theres a concession fare thats $400, not sure what qualifies for that, kids are $400 and I on't think they have differential charging locals vs foreign tourists .... so it may be those popular great walks are pricing themselves out of the market for budget foreign tourists... thers another article talking about giving kiwis prioity in the future but not clear it that will cover these walks https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/104406937/doc-to-investigate-preferential-hut-bookings-for-kiwi-trampers

off the top of the head i'm trying to work out the demographic of the people i've met on great walks, in summer most are visiting from overseas on holiday, very few Nz residents. the age spread is pretty wide, hard to pick if young people are the majority, there are plenty of people up to middle aged certainly up to 50, beyond that age there are still some but not that many.. some families, more on the routeburn than the kepler in my experience.. but school holidays is a big determiner of school kids being on the tracks and i often am not tramping in the main holiday season... i have seen a big youth group on the track, i think it was scouts. i have done them in march and even then still a majority of overseas tourists visiting on holiday.. a few more kiwis mainly middle aged. empty nesters tradiionally have a lot of disposable income, the younger ones vary, the teenagers usually not that much spare money so they'd be one of the first to stop booking along with those with families. so the demographic may change, the question is will there be more people of the right demographic residing overseas who will fill the shoes of those who won't pay the higher fees... but if you do a guided great walk you're looking at around $1300 and up per person..

they are going to ask for proof of residence in NZ or citizenship on the great walks themselves to backup that you are entitled to a cheaper fee... they could do that when you rock up to pick up your ticket, but you dont technially have to pick up your ticket you can just take a print out of your booking onto the track as proof then you'll have to face the warden. and what will the warden do if you have to pay extra and can't I dont know... will they kick people out? hard to do that on the milford track you'd have to get the boat the following day and might as well stay in the hut... but you could still end up at a road end with no transport.. less of an issue on the kepler than the routeburn on the wakatipu side. https://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/book-online/terms-and-conditions/

To correct my earlier comment. Great walks were not considered to be making a profit. I'd done my own sums from some revenue figures from FOI data on @izogi's website & expense data on docs website. But it looks from the official released stats as if I got it wrong. Offucial figures showed a loss, though most of the southern ones were close to breaking even: https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/86702463/the-price-of-paradise-new-zealands-great-walks-are-losing-millions-of-dollars Though caveat emptor as with any figures in a press release designed to support a policy decision: The 'revenue' figure seems to be defined in some news reports as income from bookings & hut fees so probably doesn't include the income from guided walk concessions.