Should SAR charge for ALL rescues?

Wellington free ask for a donation after you use them. $70 the one time I used them - which at the time was the same as St John's fee. Happy to pay ... and wonder what % do.

Hi @madpom Canterbury West Coast Air Rescue Trust says an average one hour trip costs the trust $11,500. That's only for helicopter and staff, and does not include police time, and the unpaid SAR staff. From a news article in 2016.

The vast majority of the costs associated with SAR are worn by the people doing the volunteer work. The community is overwhelmingly opposed to charging. Forget about things like helicopters - they're all inexpensive assets compared to the thousands of people who freely give up their time for a no-fault, no-cost system. Some issues, in no particular order: * Search and Rescue is a responsibility of the Police under the Police Act. Nothing in the Police Act is user-pays. Not even the person who leaves their front door wide open or the car unlocked. * It's impractical to calculate costs per rescue. What does that 30 person LandSAR unit cost for the single rescue they perform in for the year? 30 people for 12 hours? Or 30 people for 12 hours, plus maybe 20 days volunteer time a year each? Do you charge the farm labourer volunteer in the field out at the same rate as the senior management consultant working in the headquarters? * If the search subject is injured, does ACC have to pick up the entire cost of the operation to locate them? * What's the problem charging is intended to solve? The very rare occasion where a search has been caused by mischief, there's already provision to both charge the person criminally, and recover costs.

The vast majority of the costs associated with SAR are worn by the people doing the volunteer work. The community is overwhelmingly opposed to charging. Forget about things like helicopters - they're all inexpensive assets compared to the thousands of people who freely give up their time for a no-fault, no-cost system. Some issues, in no particular order: * Search and Rescue is a responsibility of the Police under the Police Act. Nothing in the Police Act is user-pays. Not even the person who leaves their front door wide open or the car unlocked. * It's impractical to calculate costs per rescue. What does that 30 person LandSAR unit cost for the single rescue they perform in for the year? 30 people for 12 hours? Or 30 people for 12 hours, plus maybe 20 days volunteer time a year each? Do you charge the farm labourer volunteer in the field out at the same rate as the senior management consultant working in the headquarters? * If the search subject is injured, does ACC have to pick up the entire cost of the operation to locate them? * What's the problem charging is intended to solve? The very rare occasion where a search has been caused by mischief, there's already provision to both charge the person criminally, and recover costs.

@ Dry Boots I'm inclined to agree with you. Charging for SAR operations is a solution looking for a problem that exists only at the margins. On balance the system we have works, even if PLB's have shifted the ground a bit. Charging has way more downsides than upsides, and would undermine the entire ethos and rationale SAR operates under at present. Sure some rescues look a bit idiotic; but the truth is we ALL do idiotic things from time to time. None of us can exempt ourselves from making mistakes.

@Dry_Boots: > What's the problem charging is intended to solve? Online social media rage. Start charging people for rescues and that'll calm right down, guaranteed.

as i've said, overseas, charging causes further problems.... the main problem with not charging is public kneejerk outrage... if you work for SAR esp as helicopter crew you have enough danger and stress to deal with as it is, introduce charging and then people wait to call rescue when the situation often gets worse and its a more dangerous difficult job for search and rescue... unless you know how dangerous it is flying a helicopter in the mountains and how much skill it takes and difficulty involved. you dont really understand what its like when you delay SAR being called out... but hey the public are happy because people are getting charged. their profession doesnt discriminate on the type of call out. they respond to beacons as an emergency... they will fly in weather that can make flying extremely difficult and dangerous because there may be someones life on the line.... so for the sake of a few thousands dollars you want to put SAR members life in even more danger...

One thing to think about which hasnt been mentioned is tourists. We advertise our country as a low budget adventure capital and welcome those that have never stepped off concrete before and just let them climb mountains walk tracks etc without as much as an entry fee or safety induction. If we take away the free cavalry at the bottom of the scree slope we will have so many deaths it will kill tourism forever. A holiday in NZ will get the same risk factor as a holiday in Syria. Insurance cos offering travel insurance know about the free service and set premiums that wouldnt cover the costs if it was removed

not true at all despite numerous deaths one year on the anapurna circuit, all it did was raise the publicity of the place and creates a mystique and legend around it and people flock to it even more like everest, people who think they will become better people for going where others have died... thinking they will be up to the task when they barely understand the risks... rescue services in nepal are pretty bad, you have to have paid up to an insurance service in advance to be sure of being rescued. the military won't necessarily step in, theres no free rescue service there. but people still flock there without insurance or adequate planning... people walk the circuit in jean and street wear... people can say they did the killer track... massive warning signs on the tongariro crossing don't stop people getting out of their depth... tourists were dying for years on the cascade saddle, the numbers kept increasing, people making the same mistakes going in bad weather.. at least one guy slipped and died in running shoes when where was snow and ice. theres no shortage of willing people out there who will still have a go... don't over estimate the common sense of people.. have you seen some of the hair raising walks overseas where the masses that wouldnt be allowed here. theres a disconnect when people see stuff in the media, it can be like moths to the flame.... as experienced trampers we're better prepared and informed and are less likely to end up getting into a serious situation, we can be less likely to go when a novice would.. more than ever young people cant evaluate risk properly because they were isolated from risk as they grew up and didnt develop the skills to evaluate it, they werent climbing and falling out of trees or on the play ground ..... they experience life vicariously in front of screens and then want to embark on what they see straight away with little or no experience, people walk the TA as their first tramp and get a real shock and are lucky to come through unscathed. for the older ones we gradually worked our way into things, we could only go on smaller adventures when we were younger or were guided by more experienced people. but wide spread in depth experience is getting harder to match up with inexperienced people who dont think about learning from experienced people. its the age of instant gratification.... i'm waiting for the tourists to start dying on mt cook next. three foreigners were told not to go into the hochstetter glacier, it is impassable, no one has ever climbed it, they went, they are now there permanently... its like parents telling their kids they cant do something,,, it can be like a red rag to a bull..

'moths to a flame' & Instagram fame. Woo-hoo !. Some might say "remove the rules & let natural selection sort it out" ?. This is why it sort of riles that somebody is paying for others folly. Doesn't need to be full cost recovery. Just a dis-incentive for dumbness. True enough, tho. If SAR aren't requesting it, this is just armchair raging.