Okay just had a look on bivouac. The waterbloc bags you mentioned seemed too bulky for what I want. The Exped Light and Comfort bags are more what I’m looking for, but does anyone have any experience on the extent of their water resistant properties. It says they’ve got some kind of DWR outer, but what does this stand up to? Okay under a fly or a clear sky under the stars? How about in a snow cave where there might be droplets falling.
Also I’m not sure whether I want the Lite 300, the Comfort 400 or the Lite 500.
The Lite 300 looks sweet but would it be so light it’s incomfortable? Would it serve okay in three seasons then serve winter if I layer it with my Vaude ultralight 100 bag?
The Comfort 400 looks a bit warmer, and is still light, but seems to have a bit of excess width and length to it that I don’t need.
The Lite 500 is a good bag, but might be too warm for what I need. I’m sure it would be good in snow caves and winter tenting, but too hot in spring and summer?
Sorry about all the questions, but I hope someone can help.
it looks like a siliconised nylon, i've never got mine wet.
just looking at the fabric it should handle drips, but if it had moisture underneath i'd expect the pressure of lying on it would force the moisture through the bag
their waterproof bags tnd to have alot of down in them..
the macpac lightweight bags look like they have a silimar nylon shell toe he exped ones.
the lite 500 is hot in anything but cold conditions.
if you're really worried about water, get a bivy bag and use it with a lightweight bag, the bivy bag ads warmth when you need it. and you can ditch it when you dont need it for warmer or drier conditions , there is an article on iclimb that points out part of the problem with getting cold is the temp of the air you breath in, bivy bags allow you to breath in air thats warmer than the outside air meaning you keep warmer than if you dont have a bivy bag hood over you..
basically if you want to sleep in snow caves the bag you want for those conditions isnt a bag you want for summer. and similarly a bag for warm weather isnt hte bag you want for a snow cave, you are really needing TWO sleeping bags or you're going to have to COMPROMISE and end up with a bag that is too warm for summer and too cold for winter...
a three season bag comes the closest to what you want, but dont expect it to keep you warm on a cold winters day or keep you cool on a hot summers day....
I am involved in the importing of Exped into NZ so have some bias obviously but will give you my personal view on shell fabrics.
Generally I would split them into 4 categories:
1. Cheaper standard fabrics without a lot of water resistance either by construction (high denier, tightly woven fabrics) or by treatment. As most fibres used are non-absorbent they do not act like a sponge but they do not offer much protection.
2. Better quality finishes and fabrics which have a good DWR (Durable Water Repellency) treatment. There is a bit of a range here but at best they will protect well against short term low pressure exposure – dropped glass of water or VERY LIGHT dew. A heavier dew will find its way in so would not be advised unless on the last day and a good airing is in the bag’s near future.
3. A waterproof fabric with little seam protection. These fabrics are usually water proof to a low pressure but are not seam sealed. Will give better protection against a heavier dew but would not be recommended for too many consecutive nights of that condition as water will find its way in through the seams or the lighter fabric.
4. Waterbloc which uses welded baffles and a fabric (Pertex Endurance) with a decent waterhead but not equal to that of a good rain jacket. These should give multi day protection against that heavy dew or windblown rain condition. Not as good as a Bivvy but as close as a bag gets with big zip flaps and a watertight construction.
Each step up the chain gives more protection but more cost and more weight so the trick is to buy what you need but not more than that.
Exped Lite, Comfort and Ultralight ranges fall into the top end on the second category with very high quality fine fabrics with very good DWR – OK against un-sustained water exposure – a few drips rather than persistent ones.
Temperature is a much harder topic with huge variables and sometimes best option is to borrow a newish bag with known specs from a friend and make the effort to use it in a typical condition before investing in a new one.
When I started in outdoor retail 20 years ago trampers bought around 500 grams if avoiding winters outside, 700 grams if out in winter conditions to light alpine and 900 grams if full on alpinists. Then everyone got lighter in part due to better lofting down and in part as a matter of style. I would still go to at least 500 to 600 grams of down if out in winter myself unless a lightweight enthusiast with the night wardrobe to supplement the bag well on a cold night with a light down jacket maybe.
So my advice would be more down as it gives the bag a longer useful life when the first blush of loft is gone – there will be some loft loss over time and washing will recover most but not all of that. As Wayne rightly says one bag will not do it all so you need to aim for the most versatile that suits most of what you do and then work around the exceptions – either by using it as a duvet in the heat or supplementing it with the right clothes, bivvy or liner bag in the cold.
The difference between the comfort and lite bags is mainly around personal preference in space. Exped bags are roomier than the average but the Comfort is roomier than the the Lite and can be zipped open. The Lite will be a little more efficient as it has less dead air to heat up (but this is not well shown in EU test results due to the way they are tested).
Gary Martin
Bivouac Outdoor
Hi Gary,
Thanks for your thoughtful advice there. From what you’ve said it sounds like the Lite 500 would be the way to go for me. Good for Autumn, Spring and the odd Winter adventure. Does this bag unzip fully around the feet and is there a special zip around the foot to allow the feet to pop out the end while the rest is zipped?
Cheers
I would think 500 would be a good middle ground with room to push winter with a combo bag/clothing - depending on conditions of course.
The lite bags do not unzip. Euro's at not keen on full zips around the feet as they make it hard to build a nice sculpted foot section that trapped maximum air in the foot section. The Comfort line does but these were only built when we requested it down here in NZ - first it was a special for us then they made it part of their line. A zip foot is a compromise and is often what you are used to more than anything else. I grew up with mummy bags and never had a problem with it.
If feet are heating up can still unzip at the base of the zip and push the feet out as it is a double zip.
Also if you do choose an Exped bag I would not buy one until next Friday or ask the shop to do the sale price early for you.
Sorry - just read that - I meant do not unzip around the foot section obviously - they do have a full length zip to the base of the bag
I was surprised how warm the light five hundred was
It was still still warm when there was a frost outside the hut, I didnt need a hood, so i also got the three hundred ultralite for summer instead.
I dont go into the super cold stuff but have used a Freedom Yukon in a tent in a decent frost. With a polyprop singlet and nothing else of any importance I still had the zip half undone. They sell this as a 2 to 3 season bag. It does not have any waterproofing (I should of spent extra for this) and is 500 loft down. For me the 2 to 3 seasons are winter spring autumn. For summer a cheap Mitre 10 dacron bag is more than enough and about the same weight but a little bigger than the down bag. If it does get wet it just gets clammy and heavy. still warm enough.
Thanks for all your help guys. Ill shoot for the Lite 500 I reckon. And thanks for the heads up on the sale Gary! Always a treat to get them cheap.
